How to Heal Anxious Attachment, Rebuild Self-Worth, and Feel Secure from Within || with Trevor Hanson

In today's episode we're covering some deep territory with my returning guest, Trevor Hanson, as we explore anxious attachment. It's crucial to understand how our attachment styles, shaped by our upbringing and personal experiences, influence our daily habits and relationships. Learning to trust ourselves and engage in self-care can transform insecurities into self-compassion.

Trevor shares profound insights into how recognizing and healing our "inner child" is essential for personal growth and development. He emphasizes the importance of daily habits that promote self-improvement and how to stop being a perfectionist. Join us to learn how understanding and healing attachment patterns can lead to personal fulfillment and genuine happiness.

Past Episode to support: prior episode with Trevor: https://www.aboutprogress.com/blog/keys-to-overcoming-conflict-and-healing-connection-for-couples

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TRANSCRIPT

 

Monica Packer: Trevor Hansen, welcome back to About Progress.

Trevor Hanson: Thank you so much. I'm really glad to be back.

Monica Packer: Well, I think we're gonna be talking about another tricky topic. Last time we talked a lot about conflict, but in ways that. Twisted things for people in a really helpful but also surprising way. And this

Trevor Hanson: Hmm.

Monica Packer: similar but different because we're gonna be talking about anxious attachment, which is

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: things kind of floating around in the zeitgeist that we're hearing so much about.

But I don't know if we really know what, what it is and what we're talking about. So can we just start with a definition? What is anxious attachment?

Trevor Hanson: Totally. So when we think about anxious attachment, um, maybe we'll take a step back and think about like the word programming. So like we all have emotional experiences growing up. Where we feel seen, safe, loved, cared for, you know, our needs are met. Those are positive emotional experiences with like mom and dad primarily.

And then sometimes even if you have a really loving [00:01:00] home, you can also have negative emotional experiences. With mom and dad, for example, like maybe there's just so many kids and you don't always get the eye contact or the touch or the responsiveness or attention that you needed, right? Or maybe it's more overt where there was like more shame or mom was critical or dad was, you know, emotionally distant, whatever that is.

Those are also emotional experiences that maybe program in different feelings, like a feeling like maybe you don't deserve to have attention or you're not good enough, or the other people are gonna leave you. And so essentially the idea of attachment styles as we hear them talked about like all over the internet and other things like that.

It's basically like a fancy, cute little word that we summarize. The idea of emotional programming that came from emotional experiences and that programming influences how you feel about yourself. How trusting you are of yourself, how trusting you are that other people are gonna be there for you and love you.

Uh, which also influences how trusting [00:02:00] you are that you know when people tell you that they care about you, if you actually believe it , and this also kind of bleeds into our last conversation around conflict. Like how you show up in conflict is also programmed from this idea of attachment. For example, if you feel like your partner, if you're really sensitive, you feel like your partner's always going to like leave you or that you're not good enough, then every little thing they do might feel like a threat and you might be more likely to maybe criticize the things they do 'cause it feels hurtful when you know they do this, that, or the other.

That feels. Like abandoning or maybe your partner's programming teaches them to run away and hide when there's conflict. Right. Protect myself. So really the term attachment style is just a fancy word for programming and how we show up in love, in relationships, in how we connect with ourselves. So that might make it more confusing.

Hopefully that clears things, things up.

Monica Packer: it, no, it does. I think switched to programming. It makes more [00:03:00] sense to me. And then

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: about, I know there's different styles of attachment. Again, we're talking

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: attachment

Trevor Hanson: Yep.

Monica Packer: on it a little bit. What makes anxious attachment, what it is,

Trevor Hanson: What it is, yeah, so there's, you know, there's three core attachment styles. There's, there's like a fourth, but will, for safe sake of simplicity, we'll bring it down to three. There's the securely attached. That person feels confident in themselves. They can fill up their own cup. Their happiness comes from within and their peace, they don't need their partner to make them be okay.

Right. They'll still be bummed or sad if their partner's being like rude or not helpful or if they can't find somebody, if they're like dating for example, and like they can still deal with the regular human emotions. They're not some robot that's unfeeling, but they generally have a cadence of feeling like emotionally.

Regulated at peace content. They believe that love is plentiful and that they deserve to have [00:04:00] it. So that's the securely attached. And then the, the insecurely attached. There's kind of two forms of it. And really at the core, they're almost the same thing. They just behave differently. So the. Insecurely attached is the anxious avoidant and the anxious, what we might call preoccupied in today's term.

We've just labeled them as avoidant and anxious at the core, they have fears. They usually have a fear of not feeling like they're good enough. Or they just downright believe they're not good enough and they've got some sort of fears around abandonment, rejection, losing connection with other people.

Kind of like a, a love is scarce kind of mentality. Right, and the avoidant, they're more likely to withdraw and shut down and kind of like protect themselves by not engaging, right? If I don't get too close, then I won't be rejected. I won't be hurt. [00:05:00] That's in a partnership that's usually, you know, let's say it's like the husband.

He's the one who shuts down in conflict. He isn't very emotionally vulnerable. Um, he's the guy in dating that was having a real hard time committing, um, was always saying, Hey, let's see where this thing goes. Let's not put a label on it. That kind of thing. And then the anxiously attached. They deal with their same fears of rejection, abandonment, all of that.

And in more of a, you know, we talk about fight or flight, it's more of a fight representation where in a relationship they're always the one chasing their partner around trying to fix the argument. They're the one trying to be perfect in order to be loved, right? Like, oh, I gotta do things perfect. I gotta people, please make you all happy.

So you stay close in dating. They're the one who might be a little bit more clingy, hoping for that commitment a little sooner, right? They're like really quick to commit or they'll, they'll hide parts of themselves because they don't believe that those parts of themselves are. Lovable or good enough. [00:06:00] And, you know, both come with their challenges.

But at the heart of it is usually, and especially when we talk with the anxiously attached, which is kind of the, the group of people I helped, 'cause that's who I was for a lot of my life, is there's a fear of abandonment. A sense that you're not good enough that leads to protective strategies like the people pleasing, criticizing your partner because they're not giving you the love that you need.

Chasing and pursuing those kinds of things.

Monica Packer: You gave us so many good signs to look for. I mean, starting with the outside behavior, but also the internal experience of being anxiously attached. I,

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: do like this whole hour long talk on parenting, I'm, I know that's like where all the listeners are gonna go to, but we're, we're talking about this more for ourselves our

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: parenting, like how we were parented. And how that can often lead to, or that can often, that leads to certain styles of attachment. Can

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: the same home [00:07:00] the same parents and largely raise the same,

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: can two siblings, one be like securely attached and another, so,

Trevor Hanson: Yes.

Monica Packer: can be anxiously attached. Is that, is there something about internal programming then that makes some people more prone to that?

Or like, why

Trevor Hanson: So. Possibly. The nurture side of things. I've got a more strong answer. The nature side of things. I don't know quite as much there. Right. It's kind of harder to tell because they do come from this.

Monica Packer: anyway on

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: side

Trevor Hanson: Yeah. No, but you think about like the different experiences between siblings, even in birth order can be so different,

Monica Packer: Huh? What's

Trevor Hanson: Or what's happening seasonally in somebody's life. Let's say like, you know, you were born at a time when dad's business was falling apart and failing, and everyone was freaking out and, you know, there wasn't as much attention given to you just because the home, the home anxiety was up. You know, there was, there was a lot more of that that could have coded in you.

This. [00:08:00] Sense that the world isn't safe, that you, you know, maybe aren't good enough 'cause you're not quite getting that attention, or that you won't have like a soft landing place when you have emotional needs. Because maybe mom and dad were so stressed outta their minds that they didn't provide that soft landing place.

Or maybe there was more shame in that season because, you would make mistakes, they didn't have the bandwidth to sit there and work through it with you and not help you understand why you made the mistake in the first place. You know, maybe they just came down more heavy handed. That was a season.

Maybe your sibling was born later. And the business was doing great. Tension was down. You know, financial strain can make a big difference. And we're just using one small example, right, where mom and dad, they have more bandwidth, they're more connecting, you know, maybe more of the kids. The older kids are in school now, uh, you know, you're in school.

They have more time and attention for your younger sibling, and so your younger sibling gets a totally different parenting experience. Or maybe, parents do their own healing. When a parent has their [00:09:00] own secure attachment, if they've done their own healing, they're going to show up more securely for their children and their children's experience will more likely turn out in having a secure attachment.

Right? If, if I'm present with my son, if I am giving him a lot of that eye contact. Helping him understand what's going on, not being overly protective, while at the same time supporting him and giving him confidence, then he's probably gonna grow up feeling pretty dang confident. But that requires me to have my own healing, sorted out my own attachment style.

And so it's kinda like, it's almost like a generational thing, like you can pass it down for sure through nurture, like how

Monica Packer: it.

Trevor Hanson: interact with each other.

Monica Packer: So it's like the roots of our attachment style is how we were parented. So the top down approach, but it sounds like attachment is really a self thing. So the secure

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: is about feeling securely attached to yourself because

Trevor Hanson: Yeah, yeah,

Monica Packer: [00:10:00] attached to others. So that, I guess, that. It to the next question I have, uh, a lot

Trevor Hanson: yeah.

Monica Packer: Attachment is actually an insecurity of self and about

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.\

Monica Packer: Insecure in, in many other ways. How are those two connected?

Trevor Hanson: They're essentially the same thing. We're just kinda using different language to describe the same experience. It's, I don't feel totally secure in myself a like, am I worthy? Am I lovable? Am I good enough? I'm always worried that people are gonna find fault in me, and if they find fault in me, this is the second piece.

I'm not secure in my connection with others either. I don't know if they're gonna be there for me. I think every little shift in our relationship is you getting ready to leave me. Uh, whether that's actually leave me or just emotionally withdraw where I no longer feel like I have a partner. I no longer feel connected or in dating.

Right? Always second guessing, trying to be perfect. You're not secure, that people are gonna love you and accept you and wanna be with you. And so whether we call it insecurity, [00:11:00] anxious attachment, it's all kind of the same thing. We're just using different terms that help people understand it based on the language that they've already used.

But it comes down to really two core wounds, usually a, some sort of abandonment. And it doesn't mean that you had to have dad step out in your childhood or whatever else. Obviously if that did happen, then that's gonna, that's gonna be a clear tie. But it could just be, you know, I'm afraid that people are gonna emotionally abandon me, that they won't be there for me.

And then the second wound is the, I'm not good enough wound.

Monica Packer: got

Trevor Hanson: you can see how they're so tied close together. Right. The self-worth and, and a lot of people have both. A lot of people that we help who still fall under this camp, um, have won the abandonment one is probably the one that's the most common.

It's like, yeah, if at the root of my fears, instability, relationship troubles is the fact that I kind of have this fear or sensitivity to abandonment or rejection,

Monica Packer: [00:12:00] Objection.

Trevor Hanson: fair enough to say, you know what? Yeah. That sounds like you're on that spectrum of the anxiously attached somewhere. Some people feel it in every single interaction where they wanna like, please the person checking them out at the grocery store and they feel anxious they're doing something wrong.

And you know, they're like, oh, I'm so sorry. I, I didn't put the thing between, you know, my order and their order. The little divider and you're, you're freaking out. And that's kind of the, maybe the more extreme version, the less extreme version is like, yeah, that doesn't really matter. Like I don't feel worried about strangers or I feel confident in work and all these other areas, but just with my partner.

When they go quiet or they're in a bad mood or something happens, I'm really triggered and I start to feel like I'm in trouble that they don't love me. Right. So you can see there's, there's a big spectrum,

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Trevor Hanson: and you can kind of pick like, oh yeah, like maybe I'm pretty far down that spectrum, or maybe not so much.

Monica Packer: Yeah, it's nice to know about the spectrum

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: it, it helps us get out of the either or camp that we like to get into with certainty and black and white [00:13:00] issues. But it's interesting to me, it seems like a cycle, just like the way you feel about yourself affects the way you show up with your relationships and the way you show up within your relationships affects the way you see yourself.

And that's, yeah, it just keeps going with the insecurities that feed

Trevor Hanson: Yeah. Yeah. And I'll give you a quick little framework, uh, this kind of leads in. Last time we met, we talked about the DO dual cycle, right? Both sides. What, I wanna touch on that for a second because it's helpful to like bring this full circle, right? So we can use an acronym to remember this tempo, T-E-M-P-O, uh, like tempo to a beat.

And if you're playing out that cycle, there's some sort of trigger. Right. Let's say the trigger is, um, your partner doesn't quite fulfill on a need that you have. Maybe it's one that you, you communicated. Maybe it's one that you didn't, uh, but either way they missed the boat on something and for you, that's the T of the trigger.

The E is the emotion. I feel anxious. I feel hurt. To put 'em simple. The M is the [00:14:00] meaning that you're making in your head, or the belief, oh man, like they don't love me, they don't care about me. They're never gonna listen to what I need. I'm never gonna feel fulfilled in this relationship. They probably want someone else.

All the stuff you could tell yourself, and you could hear how the fear of abandonment and the fear of not good enough is totally baked into all those beliefs, right? So the M and then the P is how you protect yourself. I'm gonna protect myself by when they come home, I'm gonna criticize 'em. It's not like you're consciously thinking that, but you're like, that's what you do, right?

Why don't you help me? Why don't you, this blah, blah, blah. You just start kind of going right into it, or you go to the opposite. You people please, you try to make them happy, right? You fawn and you try to get them to show you love and approval while bearing the need that you have or the hurt that you're feeling.

And as you do either criticize or people please, the outcome is not very helpful. It's usually if you're people pleasing, your needs are unmet. Which becomes a new trigger. Ow it still hurts. And then you [00:15:00] start again. Or if you criticize, then they like get defensive and push back. That's the new trigger.

And so you go back in the loop over and over and over again, T-E-M-P-O, T-E-M-P-O, over and over and over. And the, the key is we, we gotta get outta that loop. And it's totally possible, totally possible.

Monica Packer: Well, I would like to hear how, but

Trevor Hanson: Okay,

Monica Packer: you said earlier that you were an anxiously attached style, like Yeah, human. I was like, how, how do I say this? But yes, let's, let's just say it that way. You were an anxiously attached human and, and you feel like you, you

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: now. So that gives us a lot of, and this is the work you do too.

So it's not just anecdotal for you that we

Trevor Hanson: Yeah,

Monica Packer: change our attachment style, which is

Trevor Hanson: a hundred percent.

Monica Packer: we can change our attachment style.

Trevor Hanson: A hundred percent. Yeah. It's not like your height, like you just got your height and that's what you're born with. It's like, it's, it's very, very much moldable and it's, the key is, you know, a lot of people feel like they can't, and the reason they feel like they can't is because they've been reading all the books.

But [00:16:00] like, Trevor, everything you said so far, I already know. I researched it. I know why I have this feeling. I have some tips and tricks. I know what securely attached people look like, how they behave. But I can't emotionally get myself to do it. I, there's like this part of me that is still fearful and triggered and anxious when things happen.

Logically, I know I'm fine. Like it's a story in my head. I know it's a story, but I can't bridge the gap emotionally. And most people that we help are sitting there with what we call the emotion gap, the logic, emotion gap. The logical part of them knows all the right answers, but the emotional piece is just still, you know.

Uh, not on board. And the reason why most people are stuck there is because they've been gaining a lot of information, but it doesn't create a transformation

Monica Packer: Ooh, that's

Trevor Hanson: and.

Monica Packer: gonna be a poet corner in Snap. That is so good.

Trevor Hanson: Oh, just wait. It gets better. The next line is you have to feel something to [00:17:00] heal something. So if you combine them together, information will never create a transformation. You have to feel something to heal something.

Monica Packer: Oh, Kim. Mm-hmm.

Trevor Hanson: I'll explain it. This gets kind of nerdy, but this is where it gets really cool. So information gathering looks like going to therapy every week and just talking about your week.

Oh yeah. Like this is what happened, and maybe you talk about your childhood and you have some revelations as to why you feel the way you do. But again, it's still information. You ha You need emotional experiences that reprogram, right? The programming happened in negative emotion. You need it to happen in positive emotion,

Monica Packer: Okay.

Trevor Hanson: and so you need to actually feel in a real way, self-love, self-compassion, self-trust, a greater hope for the future no matter what happens in your relationships.

You need to have a tangible experience that's bringing tears to your eyes and feelings to your heart, like you need that in order. To actually shift the attachment style. And the reason is, think about it this way, when [00:18:00] we're doing logical work, we're working from the front part of our brain, uh, here underneath your forehead.

That's the, the frontal cortex. And it's all logic. It's no emotion at all. Yet the programming is down in the base brain, kind of behind your ears, uh, back here, down at the bottom, and that's where all your emotion is stored. When you're responding and you're anxious attachment, you're responding from your base brain.

You're not responding from your front brain, you're responding from down here. And so too many times the methods that we use to try and get better activate only the front part of the brain. I'm reading books. I'm talking about my weak in therapy. I'm talking about these. You know, things that I'm dealing with, but I'm rarely actually turning on and activating that base brain with emotional experiences.

And so that's the hopeful message for anybody who's like, I've read the books, I've done the podcasts, I'm even going to therapy. These are all the right answers. Why am I not changing? It's like, well, it's simple. Uh, it's just that you haven't been [00:19:00] accessing emotionally corrective experiences that help you move forward.

And actually change the way you feel about yourself. .

Monica Packer: I'm actually more of the cerebral person anyway. I like to understand something before we can move, and I think a lot of my audience is the same, so this understanding is so enlightening. . Does an emotionally corrective experience look like then? I mean, 'cause so much

Trevor Hanson: yeah.

Monica Packer: just described is also about the self still, like it's a self-healing thing.

So

Trevor Hanson: It's.

Monica Packer: we just purposefully go out and create one? Or do, do we, does it

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: Like how does that work?

Trevor Hanson: This is, this is the magic sauce, right? It's like, okay, that sounds cool, Trevor, but like, how do I do that? Um, number one, obviously that's where I try to help people because it is a little bit hard to do it on your own, I will say, right? Ideally, if you have the time, the capacity. You work with somebody who can actually facilitate it for you.

And that's kind of the work that I do. I lead people through like visualizations and, you know, [00:20:00] experiences. We even like use music because we know music that brings emotion significantly. And I'll give you kind of an example, maybe even a bit of a framework around some of the visualization work that you can do.

Right? But there's, there's so many, whether it's, you know, you're connecting in a deep way with your higher power and you feel. That trust, that like sense of surrender where you're like, okay, I can let go and trust, you know, God, and you actually feel it and it's moving you and then you know, you have that kind of experience on repeat.

You put yourself in situations. Maybe it's prayer, maybe it's. Listening to other stories. Maybe it's just seeking out the, the, the willingness to let go of outcomes because the anxiously attached. They're trying to control all the outcomes. I want my partner to love me. I wanna find that date. I want to get married.

I want, I want, I want, and they're trying to control the outcome. And so maybe learning to really surrender and feeling what it's like. To [00:21:00] surrender right it through par. That's one example. Another example, and I'll give you this one, this one's kind of borrowed from the work that I help people to do.

We've, we've got this thing, it's called the Secure Self Club, and this is kind of one of the approaches that we use in there. And you can steal it right now and use it for yourself. Um, obviously we kind of do a guided version, but this is, we'll do like the self-help version, it's helpful when we think about the part of us that responds with that fear and that anxiety that lives in our base brain as the inner child.

It's just a little version of us, right? It's literally a little version of you. It's your nervous system. It was programmed and it it's still inside of you. Like the neurons they've fired and wired together in a way that your biology, it's in there. Which is so cool. It's like, it's like a spiritual idea, but it's actually like a physical truth that like you've got a part of you that has been there since you were little, and we can help that part, right?

A lot of your listeners I know are probably moms [00:22:00] and moms. They have a super power for being able to heal their own attachment style because moms know how to love and nurture scared little people. Right. Scared little ones who don't know what to do that need someone to tell them that they're good enough, that need them to clarify truth from error.

'cause little kids, we, they get in catastrophic thinking. That's what they're, that's what they're supposed to do. They don't know any better yet. And so just as you can turn to your own child with that leadership, that love, that nurturing, helping them soothe and calm down. You can do it for your own inner child, so let me, let me give you an experience that I had. I was one day sitting in Chick-fil-A and I'm watching this dad. And he is interacting with his daughter, and she's about four, and she's doing that thing where she's running to the playground and she's running back and, you know, popping in a chicken nugget, running back, you know, just like loving her life.

It's the best thing in the world. She's barefoot her little feet, like slapping on the tiles. She comes from behind me and I, every time I know she's coming, 'cause her little [00:23:00] feet are just p you know, smacking the tile. And she comes up to dad and then it, there's one point in every four year old's day at Chick-fil-A that is the worst.

And it's time to go home. And he's like, Hey sweetie, we gotta go. And she starts to kind of go into a little bit of meltdown mode and she says. But dad and all these catastrophic things start coming outta her mouth that are not true at all. And he says, she says, we're never gonna come back. And dad, you're being so mean.

And those are two of the things amongst many things that she says. And Dad, what he does is instead of grabbing her by the hand and ripping her out the door and say, well, we gotta go, stop being crazy, stop being so ridiculous. Which by the way, sometimes we do that to ourselves. Gosh, why am I believing this again?

Why am I acting this way? I'm so ridiculous. I'm so stupid. I'm, I can't believe I'm not confident. Like, why do I always, why do I always, and you just shame, shame, shame. That's the equivalent of taking your inner child and ripping her out the door and not giving her some, some work to [00:24:00] help her trust you.

But dad, he gave us a cool example. He leans over to her and he just first gets on her level and he goes, oh, sweetie. You feel like we're never gonna come back and you feel like dad's being so mean. I, I'm so sorry. That must feel really scary. And of course you're feeling upset.

He doesn't correct her yet. And he doesn't agree with her either. He just validates the experience so that she can start to come online and see the dad as a trusting person. Right? The inner child work, we're gonna parallel this with ourselves. Maybe it's that, you know, you're waiting for your partner to text you back and you're feeling this anxiety come up in you.

Right. And you start getting these fearful beliefs. They don't want to hear from me during their day. They don't like me, they don't care about our relationship. I'm too much or I'm not enough. You know, however you wanna say it. And so that's the, [00:25:00] that's like the fearful voice of the little inner child.

That's the dad. We're never gonna come back and you're being so mean. Right? Not necessarily true, but it's what's going on. So turning to yourself looks like noticing. That maybe the place in your body where you feel the fear, you can even can close your eyes and you could even speak out loud. If you're in a position where you can do it and you say to your little self, oh my goodness, now I'm so sorry you feel this way.

I get why you do. Right? Maybe even reflect on the experiences that you had as a child. You know, mom or dad wasn't very responsive when you needed that help sometimes, or you didn't have a voice, you were the youngest one and you just got kinda lost in the mix. Of course you feel this way. Little me, right?

You're just speaking with that love. You're not correcting anybody at this point. And second move, dad moves on to move number two. So the first one we could call it like reflect and validate move Number two is that he's gained some trust because you know, as he's saying this, she's given him the little like, yeah, like, yeah, that's how I feel.

Yeah, of course, dad like, and she's kind of recognizing, [00:26:00] dad's getting it. Then he gets some permission from her. She says, sweetie, can I tell you some things that might be important for you to think about right now? Or can I tell you some things that might help you feel better? And she's kind of agreeing with it because dad's already shown her that he's trustworthy, as you have shown your inner child that you're trustworthy.

And he says, this is where he reveals truth to her. And he tells her, well, sweetie. We're definitely coming back. We always come back because remember your cousin's soccer games, any, we do a soccer game, we always come back. It's our spot and it's fun. And guess what? He's got one next week. And so we're for sure coming back then and she starts to kind of realize, oh yeah.

Oh yeah, okay. She's coming online with dad and he goes, and you know what? Dad knows that you don't wanna sleep here. You love the red chairs, but they're not comfy. You got that princess bed waiting for you at home, and mom's waiting for you at home. Don't you want both of those? And she's like, oh, yeah, I do.

So dad's not being mean. He's trying to help you. So she starts trusting dad. She starts realizing [00:27:00] like, oh yeah, dad's on my team. I'm good. And then by the time he gets to that point, he can invite her to do something different. And so there's kind of stage three. So stage one is recognized and validate.

Stage two is where he reveals truth. And by this point, she's got a lot of trust in him. And then when he makes the invitation to act differently, she's cool with it. She's like, all right, let's go. She grabs his hand, walks out the door, she forgets about Chick-fil-A. She's, she's good.

She knows she's okay. She's safe, and she hops in the car and goes home willingly, no kicking, no screaming. And I mean, sure you could take the same framework and use it as a parent, but that's a separate conversation. I want it you to envision using it for yourself, right? Let's go back to triggering situation.

I don't get the text back. Making all that meaning, you're validating yourself and then you review a truth. Right? Wait a second. My, my partner's always been there for me. You know, he loves you. Maybe he just shows up in a different way. You know, he's probably busy, [00:28:00] he's had a lot of stress. He's gonna show up differently.

That doesn't mean that you're unlovable or maybe even give other truths that are bigger, more existential, right? Hey, even if he's upset with you, even if you know. He's ignoring you on purpose. Well, guess what? That doesn't mean that you're not lovable. That doesn't mean that you are less valuable or that you're not gonna be okay.

There's so many ways to find peace outside of that. And so, and then the last step is giving yourself a new behavior. Instead of overthinking it, checking your phone all day, or maybe getting after your partner with some harsh criticism, you do things that are good for you. You turn to prayer or serving people or just getting busy in the things you wanna do that day.

And so that's kind of the, a little bit of a framework that you can use. And through that experience, what you do is every time you do that, you create emotional experiences of self-love, self-compassion, self-trust, hope, and that on repeat. Helps you reprogram [00:29:00] the anxious attachment style towards being secure, where eventually you don't get the text back, you're fine.

You're like, yeah, whatever. Like, I'm good. I'm gonna keep doing my day. I'm not anxious. I'll see them when I see them.

Monica Packer: So these experiences can be in the moment, you know, just harnessing an actual thing that's happening also

Trevor Hanson: Yeah,

Monica Packer: it can be almost designed in an advance. Like, I'm going to have this experience where I learn how to trust myself

Trevor Hanson: a hundred percent.

Monica Packer: which is really interesting to think about that almost your own. trust fall exercise, although I don't want anyone falling back on a floor for themselves.

Trevor Hanson: Yeah,

Monica Packer: to hear how this worked for you. that's too

Trevor Hanson: yeah.

Monica Packer: but, um,

Trevor Hanson: No, no.

Monica Packer: work, you, you are good about sharing some personal

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: So how did that

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: I.

Trevor Hanson: So. I didn't have the luxury of having like somebody create this for me and like a structure and a framework, which is kind of what we try to give people now is so that you can, you can do it. But I [00:30:00] remember, and there's so many different experiences, we're focusing on the inner child one right now, but a lot of my own work of going from that anxiously attached place to secure had to do with.

There's trusting in God and surrender piece, which is a whole nother conversation. Um, but speaking of the inner child, my version of this was my anxious attachment was me to staying in a relationship that wasn't good for me for a long time because.

As I stayed and I stayed and I continued to fail to succeed more and more shame came. Right? You can see the O of the outcome in the tempo cycles. What's happening? I'm getting more shame and I remember looking in the mirror and just saying the worst things in the world to myself, like through gritted teeth and even like a red face, just like.

Dude, just so much self-loathing that came along with all of this. And, you know, you may not be there if you're listening. Um, but that's, that's where mine led me. And then eventually I remember having a completely different experience where I put all these pictures of little Trevor all over the mirror kind of surrounding where my [00:31:00] body would be if I'm looking at the mirror and, and around my silhouette, there's all these little pictures.

And I started to realize that the shaming I did. Was all him. It was all the little me and looking at his little face, I just felt such love and compassion and also sorrow for treating him the way that I did. Also understanding that, you know. Yeah, of course you don't feel good enough.

You were really mine. I was also rooted in peers I was really small for a long time. I felt insignificant. I was left out on a lot of things and I didn't feel like I was good enough. And I would look at these little pictures of me where I was little. I was little in comparison to my friends, and I would just feel such love and compassion and the desire to tell little Trevor, like, just because you are small in your body does not mean that you are not massive in your impact and massively important and.

I'm gonna take care of you now. You don't have to protect yourself. You don't have to stay in relationships that aren't good for you, or try to be the funniest guy in the room in order to be enough or whatever it is you're doing. Like. [00:32:00] I got you. You're okay. And I remember having some seriously moving experiences, just weeping as I spoke to myself this way.

And it wasn't just there in my mirror, it was driving to work. I'd have these conversations internally, you know, when I was on a date, 'cause I was dating at the time. I'd go in the bathroom and take a breath and remind my little inner child that like. Hey dude, you don't need to impress this girl. If she wants you, if she wants you, if she doesn't, then that's not for you and God's got you.

And like all these things. And so it's hard to almost share how it all worked. But, um, those are, some of the pieces are a little snapshot of, of what that's like. And now we've kind of taken all of the different pieces that have been helpful for me and others and tried to just organize ' em because like you, you can tell here, there's so many ways of creating these emotional experiences that's, and it can be a little bit chaotic and a little bit hard to know.

How do I do it? When do I do it in what order? And so that's, that's [00:33:00] my life's mission is to organize that so that it's easy for people to do.

Monica Packer: And, and you did, you, you did that even here today. And I know there's so much more to it, and we're gonna make sure we talk about where they can go to learn more from

Trevor Hanson: Yeah,

Monica Packer: through, through the frameworks that you provide. Um, but I just wanted to bring it back to the. The secure piece, right. So,

Trevor Hanson: for sure.

Monica Packer: our conversation was about insecurity, whether it's

Trevor Hanson: Yes.

Monica Packer: Breeding insecurities in us, and how healing the, emotional experiences of ourselves, um, can, can lend itself to more confidence, like more. I just kept thinking when you, every, you said trust, it feels like trust is synonymous with confidence. And, and

Trevor Hanson: percent.

Monica Packer: what

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: for people who are willing to do this work?

Trevor Hanson: Yeah. What's on the horizon is that, so there's, there's kind of roots and branches. Roots are the things that are just internally and then branches are kind of the symptoms or the things that come after, uh, having this change, right? We've talked about roots and branches of the [00:34:00] anxiously attached.

The roots is, I'm not good enough and I'm afraid people are gonna leave. And the, the branches is the trouble that it creates in your life, in your relationships, and so on. But the opposite is true too, where when you are more secure. You a feel this deep sense of trust in yourself, that you can be there for yourself, that God's there for you, that your sources of happiness are not held out there like at arms, reach outside of yourself.

They're within you, so no matter what happens, you're okay. You know that you're worthy. You know that you're good enough, even when you make mistakes and you do something that's totally over in left field and is not okay. You realize that that's an experience and that's a mistake, but it's separate from your worth.

You also believe that what you have to offer is so valuable that if somebody doesn't see that worth, then it doesn't mean that it's not there, and you wind up trusting your relationships more. You trust God more. You [00:35:00] trust yourself more. That fear of abandonment quiets down and it's not like all this is gonna go away forever.

Do I sometimes still feel it? Yes. Especially when it comes to, uh, for some reason in friend groups with other men. I feel it sometimes where I'll feel a little bit of that anxiety. I'm like, woo, I'm not very good at the thing that we're trying right now. Like, let's say we're like playing volleyball suck at volleyball.

Um, and I get worried, right? Oh my gosh, I feel the fear. But for me now, it's more like. That fear is like a little cloud in the sky. I can see it. It's passing by and it's okay. Versus being in the fog like the cloud has come down, it's on the earth and I'm in it and I'm overwhelmed. And so, and, and generally the sky is more clear.

Like you get less triggers, less clouds, it's not coming up as much, but when they do come up, they're also more distant and you can manage and it doesn't affect your relationships. And so, and it's very, very possible if somebody's like, but oh, I don't know if it's gonna work for me. It just does, like, we just do this [00:36:00] on repeat with people over and over and over again.

It wasn't like I had some secret little, you know, recipe inside my heart that made it work for me. It's, it works over and over and over again, and that's the hopeful message I wanna give people. It's like, you can totally do this.

Monica Packer: That that hits right at the core of what I think a lot of people are afraid of, that they can't change. And you know, you've lived this out and you help so many people do this. And that's I think a

Trevor Hanson: Yeah,

Monica Packer: one to the work, but also this greater life lesson, we can change. It is

Trevor Hanson: yeah, yeah.

Monica Packer: as deep as this, it can change.

Trevor Hanson: Totally, totally. And you know, not to. Not to be all self-promoting, but I will say, uh, if you're afraid that you can't change, we have a page of just testimonials, whether you work with us or not, just go there for some hope. 'cause it's just like people video and video and video and video saying, I didn't think I could change.

I was stuck. I was stuck. I wasn't being able to progress. And then they tell the story of why they were able to change [00:37:00] and the result now. And it's like, holy cow. It's just on repeat. And so if you're like, I need a little bit of that hope, well go, go watch some of those.

Monica Packer: I definitely wanna a ask you to promote though, like, so tell, tell us

Trevor Hanson: Oh, okay.

Monica Packer: um, if they wanna learn more from you, including where to see those testimonials.

Trevor Hanson: Yeah, so the the best place you can go if you're like on Instagram, we connect with a lot of people. There is the Art of Healing by Trevor. When you're there, the main link in my profile, it will take you to a free seminar if you want that right? I always say. I'm here to build trust with you. I don't expect you to join in anything we do.

Like if you're like, Trevor, this was a good, this was a good first date, but I need a second before I'm willing to work with you. Go take a second. The second one looks like doing the free seminar that I have. It's called From Anxious to Secure. It talks about four essential things you need in your healing process if you want to be successful at this, and these are the four things that most people are missing.

Even if they're going to therapy, doing all the right [00:38:00] things. So that's one. Another way is just go to the Art of Healing by trevor.com. If you're like, Trevor, I just wanna watch the testimonials right now, or, you know, book that call, uh, with a member of your team to see if. You know, what you offer is a good thing for me.

You can go there, there's just a tab that says, work with me, and then you can go learn about the Secure Self Club and what we offer inside of that club. Um, but yeah, and, and if you're like, Trevor, I can't find any of your links and I'm so confused, follow me on Instagram and send me a message. We always respond to messages.

We're very good at it. And just, just reach out and, um, and we'll, we'll chat from there.

Monica Packer: Yeah, you're very involved, um, with your community and I think it just. It. It benefits everyone so much, the work that you do, and I'm grateful that you would spend so much time with us today breaking it down,

Trevor Hanson: Yeah.

Monica Packer: giving us deep and tangible ways that they can take action on this. Thank you again,

Trevor Hanson: Yeah. Oh, thank you so much.

Monica Packer: Well, that was it, my friend.

Trevor Hanson: Okay.

Monica Packer: were talking about, um.

Trevor Hanson: and I'll explain what that looks like, but I'll pause, [00:39:00] uh, to give some space here.

Monica Packer: Well, I said no, actually, go ahead. Tell us, because you

Trevor Hanson: Okay?

Monica Packer: it's like an inner is, it is an exercise that you were gonna walk

Trevor Hanson: Yeah,

Monica Packer: Okay. Actually, no, I'd love to hear the exercise.

Trevor Hanson: Okay.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Trevor Hanson: Um, I, I always break at the risk of being too long-winded 'cause I know that I am.

Monica Packer: No you're not. But I, I, I tend to be a fire hoser, so I, I have learned to try to do the same, so I'm glad it's not just me, so, no, but you're not fire housing continue.

Trevor Hanson: Okay, good, good. I'm excited about it.

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