When Productivity Becomes a Problem: Signs You’re Overcommitted and How to Reclaim Your Time + Energy || with Israa Nasir

I had the pleasure of speaking with therapist and author Israa Nasir about the often-hidden cost of toxic productivity. We delved into deeply relevant topics such as how an endless to-do list isn't just a badge of honor, but potentially a symptom of perfectionism that could be stifling your true happiness. Along the way, Israa shared some eye-opening insights about self-care for mothers and the importance of self-compassion, particularly how recognizing the difference between urgent and important tasks can reshape your daily habits and overall perception of self-worth.

Whether you're tuning in for advice on how to feel happy or how to stop being a perfectionist, this episode is a treasure trove of practical tips and thoughts on how to stop burning out and start living a life more aligned to your values.

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TRANSCRIPT

​[00:00:00] 

Monica Packer: Hi, this is Monica Packer and you're listening to About progress where we are about progress made practical. What if your endless to-do list is not a sign of success, but a symptom of toxic productivity? If you listen to my solo episode last week, then you essentially heard someone realizing that their productivity had gone too far for too long, and based off of the feedback I received from you on that episode, I know I am not the only one.

Today's episode is a giant exhale for those of us who think that perhaps our productivity is a problem. Therapist and author, isra Nassar joins me to break down why so many women feel stuck chasing other people's definitions of achievement, often at the expense of their own wellbeing.

We talk about the habits that keep us [00:01:00] trapped in perfectionism, the fear of rest, and how to reconnect with your true self through curiosity. Creativity and alignment. If you've ever felt that slowing down is failing, this episode will help you reclaim your energy and redefine what it means to make progress that actually matters in your life.

Israa Israa is a licensed psychotherapist of 10 years, speaker and founder of the digital mental health brand. Well guide on Instagram. She creates meaningful and thoughtful experiences about our emotional wellbeing through therapy, workshops, engaging creative content, and speaking engagements.

Her book, toxic Productivity helps you untangle yourself from the web of toxic productivity and embrace a life that is not just productive, but profoundly meaningful. Israa lives in New York City. That episode is coming up after a quick break for our sponsors.

Israa Nasir. Welcome to about Progress.

Israa Nassir: Thank you for having [00:02:00] me.

Monica Packer: We hear so much about, well, I think it's the pop psychology these days. Like we're hearing so much about things in the psychology world that are finally coming out to us, lay people. So we've heard about toxic positivity among others, but you are really the first to help me learn more about toxic productivity, I would like to start with what that even is. , Is toxic productivity?

Israa Nassir: Toxic productivity is a frame of mind. It's the way we are viewing our world, and in this perspective, we are very much focused on outcome and achievement. As being the most important thing. And so we're pursuing outcomes. We're pursuing achievements at the expense of our wellness, not just our physical wellness, but our emotional, mental and relational wellness.

So in toxic productivity, we become obsessed with achievement and we use it as a way to feel good about [00:03:00] ourselves, and so our self-worth becomes dictated on the things that we're achieving.

Monica Packer: Hm.

Israa Nassir: And usually the things that we are pursuing are based on other people's definition of success, happiness, health, whatever it is.

So there's a lot of comparison. There's a lot of, well, they're doing this, so I have to do this. They just did that, and so we have to do this right? And we bring this mindset into our work, into our romantic relationships. Into our parenting, um, and even our health and wellness. We can take this mindset and pursue self care or eating healthy or exercise from a place of toxic productivity, from a place of shame and guilt comparison, never feeling good enough.

And so we can kind of like take this framework to any part of our life.

Monica Packer: Yeah, I see so much crossover with perfectionism in general, which the, like the ultimate coping mechanism. [00:04:00] And you as someone who is experienced with this, this field of actually being in psychology, not just pop psychology, uh, I'm sure you can see those tendencies really linked together and I'm kind of curious how you see them, them go hand in hand.

Israa Nassir: Absolutely. So perfectionism is a chapter in the book because perfectionism is one of the pillars of toxic productivity. Perfectionism is like the mechanism through which we pursue things, and at its core perfectionism is anxiety management. It is a way to control for outcomes. If I do everything perfectly, then I know exactly what the outcome's gonna be.

Nothing will be uncertain. And so that's what really drives us towards that. And the more we can achieve perfection in our minds, the more capable we think we are. So it improves our self-worth, it improves our self-esteem. But perfectionism, as most people know, is not a real state. It's an imagined state.

That's why we're always on the loop [00:05:00] pursuing something to make it better and better and better. And in that same way. Toxic productivity, the end of the rainbow, that that gold pot situation is something that doesn't exist, which is feeling good enough because other people think you're good.

Monica Packer: Hmm.

Israa Nassir: That goalpost of being good enough keeps changing the way.

Imperf perfectionism, what is perfect keeps changing. And so we're constantly pursuing this thing that is not real, um, as a way to make ourselves feel better. And they really coincide because the habits that keep perfectionism alive are also the same habits that keep toxic productivity kind of on loop.

Monica Packer: Okay, I'm gonna wanna know more about those habits, so I'm just earmarking that for me to come back to. Uh, thanks for breaking that down for us.

Israa Nassir: Yeah.

Monica Packer: this leads to kind of a. A curiosity question then is, you know, so much of what people want is productivity advice, how to get more done in a day. And I know you're not anti getting things done, so [00:06:00] how will someone know when their desire and effort to be productive to be getting things done leans into that toxic territory?

Israa Nassir: The first is the one I mentioned earlier, which is it's coming at the expense of your wellness. And I don't mean wellness in like this vague term, like I actually mean the quality of your sleep, how frequently you're eating. Are you skipping food to do work? Like are you just eating protein bars driving from one thing to the other.

Like, are you, are you skipping the gym or whatever movement that you like because you're pursuing something. And now I know we all have seasons in our life where this happens.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Israa Nassir: When the book was coming out last year, I had the six week period that I can't even imagine that mindset right now, se seven months later.

Right. But I knew that that was coming to an end. But for many people, myself included in like a couple of years ago, there was the norm, like running from one place to the other, skipping meals, eating protein bars, like instead of like an actual meal. [00:07:00] 'cause I didn't have time. Right. Not really working out, not sleeping well.

That's when your productivity becomes toxic or harmful. That's the biggest red flag is that it's coming at the expense of wellness. It's also coming at the expense of emotional and relational wellness. You're skipping people's birthdays 'cause you're over committed, right? You are working too much, so you're.

Pushing your anniversary dinner down. You are too over committed at work, and so you're kind of snapping at your kids. You don't really have the patience to be with them when you come back home. These are all signs of an overcommitted system. And so that's one. The second is a state of disconnection,

Monica Packer: Hmm.

Israa Nassir: and this is like a very interesting place to be in because a lot of times we become adults and we check off the things, right?

Okay, you got the degree, you got the job, you're moving up on the job. Now you have the family, which is like children and partner. Now you have to buy some property [00:08:00] to live in, right? So like we have this like little script that we have to follow. And what happens in disconnection is even though you have achieved the things that you set out to achieve, you are not feeling satisfied.

You are not feeling happy, you are not feeling engaged. Everything feels like a chore. You're kind of in this like autopilot state of, of fog. And you're just kind of like going through the motions. And the biggest telltale sign of this is when people say to themselves, you know what? It's just this one month that I gotta get through.

It's just the terrible twos that we just have to make it through. And the, because what happens in toxic productivity is we kind of postpone our joy to a future state. Yeah. And so I think those are things we need to be really mindful for. Like disconnection was my biggest red flag because I was living in New York and you're living this fast-paced life.

It's normal. Like no one's eating lunch. Like everyone's eating like shit, protein shakes and people just running around all over the place, right? And so it [00:09:00] felt like the norm, but what felt really abnormal to me was when I was feeling super disconnected from my life. Yeah.

Monica Packer: And that meant relationally personally, like all the things that disconnect was there.

Israa Nassir: Yeah, like the, the things I like to read, I was just like passively binge watching the same shows, but I'm not really like in it. I didn't have the emotional capacity to start new movies or new shows 'cause. There's too much unknown there. You're just like, Ugh. There's just too much going. I'm just gonna put on Brooklyn nine, nine for the 17th time, you know?

And so that's one thing you don't really enjoy the things you love anymore. Going out to see friends is a big chore. So like, I think like a couple of years ago there was this big trend on the internet that was talking about how it's okay to cancel on your friends if you're feeling really tired. And while that's okay.

So many of us are so tired that now we've come to a place where people are so lonely because we [00:10:00] spent the last three years canceling on our friends

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Israa Nassir: of readjusting our life so that we can get that spark back, you know? Um, and so I think it was like things like that you were emotionally, relationally, intellectually disconnected.

Monica Packer: Yeah, and it sounds like a misalignment of your own values too, which is something that has really intrigued me about the way you talk about this is it's, as you said, you know, it's a frame of mind. But how that's really connected, not just back to the way you see what it's like to be someone checking off all the boxes each day, but how you see yourself and that twist on it is so fascinating to me.

How this really is about a sense of self, about self-worth, about knowing who you are. you break that down for people? What is the connection that they may not be totally seeing there between how they're viewing their level of productivity and how they view themselves.

Israa Nassir: I think, you know, when we pursue things that are not aligned that [00:11:00] somebody else told us to pursue or we just absorbed it, you know, from like the world around us, um, we don't actually know ourselves. And so because we don't get to know ourselves, we have a really hard time seeing ourselves outside of the pursuit.

And that sounds so abstract, right? So essentially like when I work with like people who are in there, let's say like late. Late twenties, early thirties, many of them have kind of, now kind of, they're exiting early stage career. Right. And now they're like, wait, like I got this MBA, but I don't actually.

Really love this. Like I, I don't think I ever wanted it. I meet so many young people who say they pursued the career they're in 'cause their parents just told them to do it. Right? This is irrespective of culture. Oh yeah, my dad's an engineer, or my mom was a librarian. Like, you know, and so you kind of just do the thing that someone else is telling you to do.

And so you never get to know what you like and what you don't like. And then when you actually get into like living your life. [00:12:00] If that productivity and that achievement gets taken away, what you're really staring at is not having any idea of who you are. And that's terrifying. So what do most people do?

They go harder into the thing they already know, even if it's not aligned. And then at a different stage in life, when we kind of transition into middle age, uh, which, you know, in the developmental stages of life is like the generative state. Um. That questioning happens again and in pop culture that's called the midlife crisis.

But it's really an existential evaluation of did I spend my time? In a way that felt good to me. That's really what it is. But we don't have the tools to question this. We are not taught how to be more aligned. I've met people who are in their forties and they're like, I don't know what my values are.

Like what is, what is a value? Like I care about my family, you know? It's so scary. And so then people do end up doing the [00:13:00] stereotypical midlife whatever situation. But that's like really, like, it's like a very natural thing to want to question because at its core, like we have an innate drive to know ourselves,

Monica Packer: Mm.

Israa Nassir: but our societal values dominate more than our inner voice.

And you know, like in the mid twenties stage it's called Quarter Life and there's a really great book if there's any, any people who are curious, like between like 28 to 35 or 32 ish is called the Quarter Life Stage. Um, it's a phenomenal book by another therapist who I found it so helpful for me 'cause it's like it helps you kind of do the questioning a little bit more.

Monica Packer: Was that the name of the book? Quarter

Israa Nassir: Yeah. Yeah. It's just called Quarter Life.

Monica Packer: Quarter Life. Okay. That's the name of the book.

Israa Nassir: Yeah.

Monica Packer: You know, I, so much of what you just described to me paints a picture of someone who had good intentions. It's not like people set out to disconnect from what actually matters, including [00:14:00] people and themselves and as part of that, knowing who they are, but they just kind of get sucked into it because of the culture and the society or the family we were raised in. Uh, you, you spoke to some signs there, which is really helpful, but then you also brought up habits and how that also crosses over with perfectionism too. I would love to know more about that, um, perhaps how those two are breeding together, the perfectionistic and the productivity kind of habits. And, you know, I'm curious if there are habits of the mind, habits of the body.

So, yeah. Color me, intrigued. Tell me more.

Israa Nassir: Yeah, so one of the habits is overcommitting and saying yes to everything, you know, from a toxic productivity mindset. It's like the more I do, the more valued I am, right? From the perfectionist mindset, which intersects is. Only I know how to do this Well, my standard is the right standard. They are going to mess it up.

It's gonna take too long to explain it to them. I'm the person who can do it, right. It doesn't come from a place of arrogance, it just comes from a place of control.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Israa Nassir: [00:15:00] And so that's like one really big habit is saying yes first, then try to back into it, figure out the time, whatever, right? Overcommitting is a huge red flag.

Um, another offshoot of Overcommitting is over-functioning. That's a big one. Over-functioning is more in the realm of relationships and emotion. So not only are you overcommitting physically to do things and saying yes to everything that's coming your way, requests from friend, requests from parents, from child, you're just saying yes, yes, yes.

But you are also doing the emotional labor. You are functioning on behalf of other people because again, you believe that you are the person who is the best suited to do it. And if you do it, they will need you and you will be valued. And you matter like you belong. Like if I, my sister has a problem. I solved it for her.

I belong. I'm a good sister, so I'm good enough. My parents need something. I'm the one who's gonna drive and do it. I'm good enough, right? So that's another habit is over-functioning. [00:16:00] Um, another habit that really shows up is inability to rest. So this is, I guess, a lack of habit, um, but consistently diminishing the value of rest in your life.

So when you look at your calendar and you see empty time, you are triggered by it and you're like, Oop, I gotta do something right? And then when you are doing something restful, the perfectionist mindset is, well, you gotta do the best thing. You have 60 minutes, you have to do the best thing that you can possibly do in these 60 minutes, right?

And so I think that is a really common habit that keeps people trapped. So I'll kind of stop at these three.

Monica Packer: Those things seem like, uh, three umbrellas, right? That that shows so much both mind and body habits and the ways we're living our lives. But I think so many are listening to that and raising their hand and saying, oops, oops.

Israa Nassir: Yeah, I mean, your body is on for all of these, right? We're overcommitting. One of the reasons we tend to do it is we can't tolerate the discomfort of saying, no, the body is too uncomfortable. Someone is. [00:17:00] Asking for something, they need help. You can't regulate your own emotions, so what do you do? You just say yes to shut it down so you can turn off that response in your body.

Uh, same thing with rest. Many people are so uncomfortable in their bodies. When they're resting, it's a literal state of fidgeting and restlessness. If you're lying on the couch or you sleep too much on a weekend, you feel it in your body as shame, right? Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: Hmm.

Israa Nassir: I think like that body work is like so necessary in slowing down the mind as well.

Monica Packer: So I wanna hear a little bit more about your story. You've talked about it in, in, in, in kind of a, a preview way, but I want to kind of flesh it out a little bit more about what it looked like for you, because you know, for some people they hit a breaking point with their health or their brain or their relationships for other people.

I think you can also be forced to slow down and have to shift your relationship with productivity. That's really something that happened to me after I had. [00:18:00] My fifth kid a couple years ago when I, my whole life just, you know, went to a screeching halt and then I realized how much I was still basing my sense of self off of what I could

Israa Nassir: Yeah.

Monica Packer: because I no longer could do like 10% of what I used to be able to do on just a normal day. Um, so what was it for you? What made this something that you realized, oh, I have to take care of this.

Israa Nassir: I think, uh, I mean I alluded to it earlier, um, it was that sense of disconnection from my life. Um, and the things that really started pinging it for me was the big divide between how people saw my life and how I saw my life. So people like, this is my early thirties. I'm like living in New York. I just got married.

I'm like, vibing, we're going out. Like tons of stuff is happening, right? And everyone's like, wow. Like I was working at a startup. It was all very cool and glamorous, but everybody was like, wow. I was start like, you must be so happy. Like you were doing all these things,

from the external state that there was like a lot of [00:19:00] perception around how I was feeling, but internally, I was tired, I was disconnected, I didn't feel good about the thing. Nothing felt good enough. And so that gap was like pretty stark in the way people, and so like, you know.

That kind of was like one of the first things I started feeling. Um, and I think by virtue of my profession, I tend to be a little bit more self-reflective than the average person. I'm not saying all therapists are like that, but I think we just have a little bit more of language around it. Right. We know how to do it.

Um, and so, and part of schooling is like you have to go to your own therapy. And so like, I think like because of that, it wasn't really like a breaking point. It was more a curiosity in the shift of how I'm feeling. It was that, that, that, that's what prompted it. Because I was like, something doesn't feel right.

This feels odd, this doesn't feel like me. Like why is this happening? There's a lot of why, you know, there's a lot of, and I think that's why, you know, self-directed curiosity is like such a powerful tool for resilience. I think people struggle with [00:20:00] journaling. They're like, I don't know what to write. Or people struggle with like meditation.

'cause they're like, my thoughts are the worst place in the world. Like, that's not what I wanna be around. And I always say like a good buffer is curiosity. Transform the way you speak to yourself. As from why, like why did you do this to what happened for you to make this decision, Israa, right? And so there's like a lot of curiosity that led me.

So my coping skill, uh, from childhood is if something feels uncomfortable, I have to read about it. Like, I think like consuming knowledge is like of my safe space, and that's not always a good thing, but that's what helps me, right? And so I'm like, well, stuff is going on. Like, I'm doing these things. I don't feel good about it.

Like, why am I doing them? And then I was like, I wonder if there's a name to this feeling. I wonder if it's, you know. Ruling out depression first. I was like, I wonder if there's some theory about this, right? And so like I started going down this path of [00:21:00] motivation, human behavior achievement, social learning theory, like all of the theories that are in the book.

There's about 300 papers referenced in the book. Um, because I was just reading a lot of it. Um, and that's really when I came to this conclusion that we are not talking about unresolved emotion. It's 'cause all of the research articles are talking about, and then I wrote this essay to help me understand what was going on with me, which then evolved into the book.

Monica Packer: Oh, I

Israa Nassir: Yeah,

Monica Packer: that trajectory,

Israa Nassir: yeah,

Monica Packer: though that it wasn't like you had to hit rock bottom a lot of women wait. To start to take care something until they do, because it almost gives them that permission and that push when it's like, no, that curiosity about your life, that's what can drive change.

Israa Nassir: Yeah, and I think a lot of women do that because we all kind of believe this idea that just because I can, I should.

Monica Packer: Hmm.

Israa Nassir: So just because I can and like, you know, like I'm not like on my deathbed, so I might as well just push through, right? Like, and so I think [00:22:00] it's that mindset and again, it's like telling yourself that like you are deserving of the things you give other people,

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Israa Nassir: and trusting that the people around you.

Will manage. I think that's a really big thing, uh, for women, especially women who are caretakers of any type of dependent. The mythology around the woman and the family is that, well, if she's not there, everything's gonna fall apart. Right? Who's gonna do the meals and the recipes? Like, there's like a lot, lot of pressure around being like.

The linchpin thing that's holding everyone together. But the truth is like nobody's that important. And so we're constantly told and put on this pedestal that we are that important, and it puts so much pressure on us and it creates like a system of incompetence around us. And so I think. I mean, I'm like kind of going very tangential on this, but it leads like the role a woman plays leads a lot into this like mindset of feeling like I'm not deserving of rest.

Monica Packer: [00:23:00] Mm-hmm.

Israa Nassir: And so until you have a breaking point, until you get a health issue, I mean more women than men have autoimmune disease. And we know that some of the biggest triggers of autoimmune is stress.

Monica Packer: Well, you pointed out something there that I think is worth considering in each individual household. Like how much do we think we, not that even I can, so I should, but more of like I have to, so I have to like, I always have to, and that's of course like a bigger. Picture and also a bigger trajectory of, of having, you know, family members learn how to actually contribute in ways that they don't have to do it all, all the time. But also recognizing we do have choice. We have, we have a choice in how we're going to prioritize our time in our lives.

Israa Nassir: Yeah.

Monica Packer: that speaks to what is healthy productivity, because I would love to know what, what is that and what does it look like to be healthfully productive?

Israa Nassir: Before I answer that, I just wanna add one thing to the last point, because that's a place where a woman can have agency and choice. Because you know, I [00:24:00] think sometimes we struggle to find where we have choice because so much of what's happening we feel like is in the other person's hand. Like, are they capable?

Are they gonna do it right? Like et cetera.

Monica Packer: And do it the right way,

Israa Nassir: That's the choice. That's the agency we have, we have the agency to release the definition of what constitutes something as done. And I'm gonna use a very trivial example, which ends up being a really big deal in some couples and some families, uh, because it becomes symbolic, you know, of the struggle.

And as the dishwasher, I talk about the dishwasher a lot because it is like the sim symbol of this thing that women end up taking on because they have an idea of how it must be loaded. Now, what is the outcome that we're, we are hoping for clean dishes. Now, it doesn't matter if things are on the top, bottom, whatever, there's certain limitations.

You don't put your knives in there because then you have to sharpen them, blah, blah, right? But if we can release the pressure, that's the agency we have, [00:25:00] can we release the pressure of ourselves on ourselves that. Doesn't allow other people to help us. That's the agency we have. And so when you think about toxic productivity, whether it's in the workplace, in your family, in your romantic relationship, even as a group of siblings who's taking care of elder parents, now that's a big discussion.

If your sibling does one thing a different way, let it be. If it's not harming your parent, let them care for them in the way that they do so it doesn't just fall on you. It's really, really important to understand that that's our agency.

Monica Packer: I,

Israa Nassir: Yep.

Monica Packer: that you took a moment to pause there because again, I think so much of why women get swept up in this good intentions, I wanna fulfill my responsibilities and so much of our responsibilities thanks to domestic labor care work, you know, often. Is relationship driven and doing less of those responsibilities requires someone else to step up to the plate or do things differently, or those things not be done.

So it [00:26:00] becomes, you know, the spider web of, of different things to work on. But at the heart of it is what you just shared is, is, is choice.

Israa Nassir: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: it's knowing like I do have a choice

Israa Nassir: Yeah.

Monica Packer: You know, I can exercise that to live life in a richer way. Um, and that goes back to the, what does it look like then?

Like how does it look to be healthfully productive?

Israa Nassir: I think the first thing is in order to be more productive, you have to do less. When we are doing too many things, we are busy, we are not productive, and so we don't wanna be busy. We wanna be actually productive. So the first thing is do less. Do an audit. Do an audit of your calendar. Do an audit of your obligations, your children, your partner, your friends, coworkers, everything.

Do an audit of the last three weeks and then, then reflect on, did I actually have to do this? What would've happened if I didn't do this? If I said no, right? Did I feel good or bad? Did I feel good or bad going in and did I feel good or bad leaving? Like whatever that activity was. This, I [00:27:00] explained this in more depth in the book, but this is like a really powerful exercise because it puts you in a heightened sense of awareness about your time and energy.

Monica Packer: Okay.

Israa Nassir: what it does is it puts you in the driver's seat. Because you just don't know how many things you say yes to, they become legacies. Like you're just saying yes 'cause you're uncomfortable, like suddenly your time is not your own. Right now we are living on the mercy of our calendar notifications, but if we actually take the time to audit, we can actually make more intentional choices in the future.

So that's do less in order to be more productive. That's, that will actually make you productive in a healthy way. Second is try to understand what your values are and if your choices reflect those values. Now, values are a very abstract concept for many people, so I always invite people into like a little bit of like a fun reflection, which is think about your last three relationships and think about one thing across all three that you did not like.

If there's one behavior or two behaviors that are consistently coming [00:28:00] up that you don't like in other people, that means the opposite of that behavior is a value that matters to you. So if someone is constantly distracted and they don't listen, they don't remember things, and this is like a thing you always don't like in people everywhere, that means empathy is a really important value for you because active listening is the action of empathy.

So like, it's like an exercise we can do, and then we can always ask ourselves like, does this actually align? You know, and I think that's really important. Um, I think in order to be productive in a healthy way, we need to know the difference between urgent and important.

Monica Packer: Okay.

Israa Nassir: Not everything is urgent. It might be important.

Some things are urgent and important. Some things are just important, not urgent, right? So toxic productivity in our current culture thrives on the false sense of urgency.

Monica Packer: Hmm.

Israa Nassir: All of the notifications are read. Why? Because our brain process is read as an alert. The color right, and so that's why all the notifications are red.

It's not like a [00:29:00] random choice because it pings your brain. So do away with notifications. You don't need that false sense of urgency. Have dedicated email time. You don't need to respond to emails right away. You know, maybe do a 10 minute text message. Check in throughout the day instead of responding to people immediately.

Right. Assess the urgency and importance of the things you do. I think that can clear up space for some healthy productivity. And I'll just give one last one. Um, is wherever you can try to see if you can invite some time for a creative mediocre hobby.

Monica Packer: Hmm.

Israa Nassir: I and mediocre is really important here

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Israa Nassir: we're not trying to be perfect at knitting.

We don't want to make an Etsy shop of our paint. Right. We're not trying to put it up on Instagram. We are not doing any of that. Let's see if we can just become tactile and present even, even if it's for starting 20 minutes every two weeks. And why does this [00:30:00] help productivity in the long run? Because it helps you resolve unresolved emotions.

It helps you time to decompress. It helps give you some ability to process your subconscious. 'cause when you're doing like creative activity, it's just. Emotional processing. Um, but you can't do that if you're competing, if you're taking photos of it, if you're trying to get better at it. So those, I would say are like four things we can do.

Monica Packer: And those are all so great. And I know you talk more about your year of hobbies, um, which is something that I would love to spend more time on, but we will have to make that another, another topic for another day. But I love that idea, especially because, not only of the emotional processing you brought up, but also that's how they can get reacquainted with themselves while they're doing it.

Israa Nassir: Yeah,

Monica Packer: I like this thing. I, I don't like this thing. I'm good at this. I'm don't really enjoy doing that. So that's kind of the free, the freedom there and having that permission to be mediocre.

Israa Nassir: exactly. Yeah.

Monica Packer: Uh, so there's so much more I'd love to discuss with you, but I think I'd like to end [00:31:00] with the word that you kept using and, and its alignment. You know, you brought that up quite a few times. I just think that seems to be what the ultimate goal is for how we're spending our time. Can you paint the picture of what it looks like, to be aligned?

I, this is something that I've had women ask me, well, what does that look and feel like? And it, it seems so meta and something you have to experience a bit better understand, but I think you will likely have the words to paint the picture for them.

Israa Nassir: I am so glad you brought that up. Um, I think a lot of times people confuse balance for alignment of everything's balance. Like my work life balance, my family friend balance, right? But balance means that you are juggling things, but they're not all things that matter to you. You're just juggling them.

Alignment is slightly different in that you are saying yes and no to the things that preserve your energy in an effort to make sure that when you do have to be misaligned, because time and life will always require [00:32:00] that misalignment is exceptional in your life. So the more aligned we can be, let's say, you know, you say yes to the right friends, you're around people who support you.

Let, let's say like in a, a relational perspective, right? And you are only around people who make you feel good about yourself and you know your community is reflective of your values. If that's your baseline, then you can easily show up at places where there's some misalignment without it affecting you emotionally, without it draining you.

Obviously there will be people who are misaligned in your life. You'll go to a party and someone's like not aligned with your political beliefs like, but when we are misaligned all the time, you get into fights with those people or you leave that party feeling completely drained 'cause there's no resilience.

So emotional alignment is like making sure that the majority of your life, 80% of your life is reflective of your values, and that builds resilience. It builds tenacity, it builds emotional clarity, and it [00:33:00] also builds emotional intelligence so that the 20% of the time when your boss is a jerk and a friend is weird, who is like a friend of a friend.

You have the resilience to withstand it.

Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.

Israa Nassir: reason we're so burnt out emotionally right now is because I think most of us are living misaligned lives, like that's the norm. And so we don't have patience for people anymore. Like people are melting down on airports. There's screaming in an ice cream shop.

There's like. Just chaos everywhere, honestly. And, and I think it's that our norm is to be misaligned. Um, and from like a physiological perspective, when you are misaligned, your body is dysregulated. And so you might hear about nervous system dysregulation, like that's what it is. And so to be aligned, you have to be a little reflective.

And that, that means like thinking about what you're saying yes to, um, and alignment keeps you sustainable. And, and I think that's the biggest piece is, you know, people hit a wall and they hit burnout and [00:34:00] they've collapsed. They have health issues, and then they kind of step back, right? And then they give up on their dreams and or they shift directions, right?

But I think if you're aligned, it keeps you going the whole way through. 'cause it has rest, it has creativity, it has balance as well.

Monica Packer: What would you say is the best part of your life now that you live more aligned than you were before? Thanks to the toxic productivity loop that you were in.

Israa Nassir: My friendships, my female friendships, my community, 100%. Yeah. Uh, when I was in toxic productivity, there was a lot of that, like fear of belonging. Like I had just moved to New York, so I just, I didn't know anybody here. So, you know, there was this like fear of being left behind. So it was just like hanging out with so many people going, I was going out seven days a week.

Believe it or not. That's not an exaggeration. It's so unhealthy. It was a bizarrely wild time of my life, right? And so now, like, I know I've, I've like really [00:35:00] chosen. The community,

Monica Packer: Hmm.

Israa Nassir: like my female girlfriends. So I would say that

Monica Packer: I love hearing that sounds like a two birds, one stone situation. You know,

Israa Nassir: yeah,

Monica Packer: on, work on your relationship with productivity and it will benefit all the relationships in your life.

Israa Nassir: absolutely.

Monica Packer: wow, Israaa this was just so incredible. Um, I'd like to end with the final question. We always ask, ask each guest, but before we do that, where should people go if they want to learn more from you? Particularly your book.

Israa Nassir: My website is the hub of all of the things that I do, so it's my full name, Israanasir.com. Over there you can learn about the book. There's free resources like digital downloads on the website, and it also links to my steps stack where I write. More and like I do two essays a a month. So if you like the book and you like reading it, then you would probably enjoy my essays as well.

Monica Packer: Amazing. And I, again, going back to your journey, that's what brought you to the book was an essay too.

Israa Nassir: Yeah,

Monica Packer: love that you're doing that on both sides of this. So we'll make sure we link to that.

Israa Nassir: yeah.

Monica Packer: final [00:36:00] question is a way for listeners to take all that they've learned and have one small way they can take action on it.

So what would that be?

Israa Nassir: One small action is see if you can spend some unstimulated time, at least once a week. One small action doesn't have to be 30 minutes, can be five minutes in the morning. When I say unstimulated, that's no music, no phone, no scrolling, no email, no tv. Just you start with five minutes and see how grounding that feels to you.

And if it doesn't feel grounding, get curious.

Monica Packer: Love that. Well, Israaa, this has been so remarkable. I'm very appreciative. One, your expertise in your writing, but your willingness to be here today to share so much with us. Thank you very much.

Israa Nassir: Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Monica Packer: That was amazing. was like, don't ask that because you're gonna like you.

. I hope this episode gave you the hug and kick in the pants you need to grow.

I'll now share the progress pointers. These are the notes I take so you don't have to,

and those in my [00:37:00] newsletter, get them in a graphic form and an expanded version of what you hear today. You can sign up at about progress.com/newsletter. Number one, productivity shouldn't cost your wellness. Number two, do less to do better. Number three, redefine what done means. Number four, reconnect with yourself through rest and play.

And number five, seek alignment, not balance. Be sure to check out Israa's book Toxic Productivity as well as her website, which we've linked for you in the show notes. This show is listener supported. Members of the Supporters Club make my work with the About progress free and available to all.

They also get access to three levels of exclusive benefits from more time to more content with me, including my favorite benefit, more personal, my private premium, ad free podcast where I lean into the personal side of personal development. It's been so fun lately. We've had great conversations between my podcast manager, Taylor and I, and Brad and I [00:38:00] are soon to review.

A movie I've never seen before and never really wanted to.

The Blair Witch Project. I know he somehow convinced me, but in honor of Halloween, that's what we're doing. You can always support the show for free. And the number one way to do that right now is leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, and doing so gets you automatically submitted to our yearly favorite things giveaway, which is about to start.

It's a rolling giveaway, so the sooner you submit your review, the more likely you are. To get a prize. An Apple Podcast can take a little bit to accept those reviews, so I would submit it now. I'll have a special episode coming up soon on nine years of about progress. Thank you for being here and making it all possible,

and also thank you for listening. Now go and do something with what you learned today.

Monica Packer: But I love that idea, especially because, not only of the emotional processing you brought up, but also the re familiarity. I'm saying that word wrong. Re familiarity. No, I can't even say it. Reacquainting.

Israa Nassir: [00:39:00] Hmm.

Monica Packer: we go. That's how they can reacquaint, get reacquainted with themselves while they're doing it.

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