In this episode, Dr. Tanmeet Sethi and I delve deep into the often misunderstood distinctions between joy and happiness. Dr. Sethi shares her profound insights on how joy, unlike happiness, is a birthright that resides within our bodies and can be accessed through mindful practices and connection to our physical selves. During our conversation, Dr. Sethi eloquently explains the importance of feeling pain instead of avoiding it and how this process can lead to a more profound, sustainable joy.

If you've ever felt disconnected from happiness or struggled with trauma, this episode offers enlightening perspectives and practical advice on reclaiming joy. Join us as we explore these transformative concepts and learn why joy is truly worth fighting for every day.

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TRANSCRIPT  

Tanmeet: [00:00:00] when the world wants to shut your heart down, it not only shuts you down to the pain but it also shuts you down to every other emotion and the joy. And when you can walk back gently and lovingly to meet your pain, you will find something more radical.

And that's joy. Joy is worth fighting for every day no matter what.

Hi, this is Monica Packer and you are listening to about progress where we are about progress made practical,

Times are tough and one of the trite refrains we often hear is to choose to be happy. But what if that advice skips the very heart of healing in this interview, you'll hear Dr.

Tan meet satis share why joy is not the same as happiness, and why reclaiming joy must start in the body with both clinical expertise and lived experience. Tan meat explains how healing the nervous [00:01:00] system, using breath connection, and even grief can become a doorway to a deeper, more sustainable joy.

I have to say, this is one of the most monumental interviews I've ever personally had and what I've returned back to over and over and over again. This originally aired back in 2023 and I have since referenced it to countless people and Tan Meat's book as well. Joy is, my justice is so phenomenal.

You must read it.

Whether you're feeling stuck, burned out, or numb, this conversation will meet you with truth, compassion, and hope

that interview is coming up after a quick break for our sponsors.

Monica: .

Welcome to about progress.

Tanmeet: Oh, I'm so excited to be here, Monica. Thank you.

Monica: It's been a real pleasure to get to know you and your work online, so eager to get my hands on your new book. But we're here to talk about everything you've learned basically, not just in the writing of this book, but in your professional and your professional career, but also your personal life as [00:02:00] well, and how the interplays with a topic that people care a lot about.

It's probably the most searched. Not probably, I read this summer official, and I should find this out where it was, but the most asked question on Google is about happiness. In other words, joy, like, how can I be happy? How do I get happier? Anything related to that, and this is such an important topic because it's just like this human need.

We all have to feel better, to feel happier, but joy, Is a little different and I'd actually love to start with your own definition of what joy is and how it's something all of us can claim regardless of, where we are in our lives and our past as well.

Tanmeet: Yeah, I love that we're starting here because I might have read that somewhere too.

I need to find that too. But happiness, being so searched makes sense, right? It's, we all want to feel better and do better, the thing that I really want listeners to understand is that I can't define joy for each person. It [00:03:00] really is this river that flows within us, and it's very individual to each of us. At the same time, what I really can offer is a different framework between happiness and joy, because that's actually where I feel like we're doing a disservice and even a little harm in our mental health conversation.

So I find that I want people to know happiness and joy are both welcome all the time. I'm all for both of them. What I can't really reconcile for people is that happiness is presented interchangeably with joy, and I think that's not okay. Happiness is a cognitive construct. It's an evaluation of how our life is going.

It's attached to some outcome or something. Okay. Whereas Joy is actually a deeply embodied experience that comes from the same deep well as our capacity for love, for meaning, for connection. Our [00:04:00] pain stems from all of those things, as does our joy. Our joy is actually something that no one gave to us. No one can take away and no one can make different.

It is in us innately. It is our human birthright, and when the cognitive constructs of our life are not happy for which many of us, that's the truth. It is not okay to not present a difference between happiness and joy because what I can tell you is that the cognitive constructs of my own life are not happy most days, but joy is accessible to me anytime.

And that's what I want people to understand, that it is very different, these two concepts. I'm gonna give you how that works for me, but I think when we go deeper into concepts, it'll even be more understandable for people. For me, even if the day is hard, even if life is not going the way I want, I can access joy in my [00:05:00] body through movement, through breath.

I can take a walk in nature and feel awe. At the trees around me at the spring blooms, I can feel gratitude that even though I'm crying, I am awake to my life fully. I can feel self-compassion that I'm only human, and of course I hurt because I love, and so on the surface may seem like that just doesn't, that's not enough for me if things aren't going well, but what I explain in my book is how to look at these practices and understand them from neuroscience, from a more equity justice view that allows us to understand that these tools are not there because we should use them.

They are there because we deserve to use them. We deserve to reclaim power in our body. And the truth is that. Any kind of suffering we're experiencing or any system of oppression, we're living in work to [00:06:00] gain more power by thriving when we do not by stripping us of our power and our humanity. So when I am feeling like I am powerless, hopeless, devoid of all those things that make me feel like I thrive.

I go back and reclaim power in my body, and then on a more tangible level, for some people, what I may offer is that, you know, how you can be at a funeral for someone you love and be so sad, deeply mourning, and in the next moment or the same moment through your tears, you can laugh with a family member or a friend about a way that person, I'm getting chills thinking about it a way that they gave you love, or made you laugh or irritated you, and laugh about that memory. That is what I mean. Joy springs from the same well as our pain. So I offer both of those ways of looking [00:07:00] at it as practical entryways into our discussion.

Monica: Two parts of that make both a lot of sense to me and that are really astounding is that, that joy is about connection.

I'm like, yeah, of course. How we can feel that in spite of whatever circumstances we might be facing and as well as the body piece to it. So I wanna go both of those directions. Let's start with the body part, if that's okay, because that might be the new thing for people.

They're like, wait, so joy is an experience in my body. How does that work?

Tanmeet: Yeah. I love this question. If there's one thing I think that's been much better established in the last, I would say two or three decades, is the fact that trauma lives in our body, suffering lives in our body. And people like Bessel, Vander Cook and other experts have really helped us understand this through evidence, science and experience.

What I tell patients daily is that what your mind and heart cannot resolve, your body will hold onto, and that is [00:08:00] true. At the same time, what I tell them is trauma is held in the body, but it. It is also where it heals. That is why going into your body is so important and this cognitive construct and belief that you can be happier or more joyful or have a better life is not to be dismissed.

I. Yet until we feel it in the fabric of our body, it is probably not to be harnessed as powerfully as we possibly can. Now, one thing I'll explain to people is that the nervous system does its best job of protecting us in a moment of loss, grief, or ongoing suffering or oppression. We are losing our sense of safety and ease in our body.

Our nervous system helps us by fighting, fleeing, or numbing to whatever is happening. It does that out of love and protection, but sometimes it goes on too long for us and we get into a place where we're either [00:09:00] hypervigilant or numbed, dissociated. In that way that our nervous system works, we also must work to help it reset, to help our nervous system give us that connection back to ourselves and to the world around us.

And that is why it is so important to step into our body over and over to start that healing process.

Monica: I think that's really counter to a lot of advice out in the personal development world and because of the things I've done with therapy in the past that had changed my life. But initially, the advice you get to be happier, to feel more joy in your life is to work in your mindset.

And while thoughts do matter to me, cognitive therapy was a big part of my shift. It was also a body part that you're bringing up here that I didn't have that gap filled for many years. It took a lot longer. So how can we bridge the gap between this constant like flood of advice to work on your thoughts and to believe that you [00:10:00] can change and the mindset piece of it, and also this really important body piece.

Tanmeet: Yeah. I would say, yeah, not to let go of the mindset piece. The only harm I feel in the mindset piece is that in what I feel is a whitewashed wellness approach, is that we are told to think ourselves out of suffering. Yes. And oppression. And I find that not only counterproductive, but harmful. And so I push back on that to anyone who gives me that.

And it is not, and let me,

Monica: can we frame that for the people who are listening? 'cause I would say as another term is toxic positivity, where it's yes, you choose, get up today's your day. You decide if you're gonna be happy. And it's also like a skipping over of you don't have money for groceries.

Choose to be happy anyway, like you're an abusive relationship. Nope, it's up to you. Any other framework you can offer is,

Tanmeet: Yes. I think it's so important to understand why it doesn't work and why it's harmful is that actually it incites the nervous system further because we feel invisible, not seen or not heard, right?

And [00:11:00] so I give different frames for people on what to do instead. But what I will say is that, It is so important to understand that we cannot think ourselves outta poverty, oppression, grief, and loss fully, but we can think our beliefs that we can heal. Got it. That is how we can use our mindset. That is powerful.

Our belief system is powerful. What I would say is if you're suffering through something that is not so changeable, as much of the things are that these mindset approaches work for, I would say first have fate that you can heal. That is a way that you can use mindset to your advantage. And then let's get into body and heart set, right?

Let's understand that we can heal, but to heal, we need to go back where the trauma and suffering did its havoc in the first place. We need to go back to our body and. If you think you can cognitively only get out of something, I would like to [00:12:00] meet that person. I really would. I don't think it's possible.

What I would say is possible is to do both at the same time. So maybe that means you're cultivating a faith that you can heal, that you can do this, and. You're walking into your body every day. You're doing some kind of yoga, some kind of stretching. This is not even that complicated. Monica. I don't think people need to go to an expensive yoga class or all that's welcome.

I'm talking about sitting and noticing your sensations in your body. Stepping into your body gently, lovingly, over and over starts with simply noticing next time you're washing the dishes.

Next time you're sitting and having a cup of tea or coffee, can you get off your phone and just notice what it feels like in your body? Is something hurting? Is something stirring? Do you feel constricted in some place? On and on?

Monica: Is that where the connection part comes to play too? It's like a reconnection [00:13:00] to your body, helps you connect.

The healing things. I'm like, how do I even phrase this? I'm sure you're gonna make sense of this much better to me. How, let's bridge

all those gaps as well.

Tanmeet: So the longest nerve of our body, which is the main nerve of our parasympathetic or relaxation nervous system, it's called the vagus nerve, which comes from the Latin for wandering.

It wanders from the base of our brainstem all the way down our trunk into the depths of our abdomen. That nerve sends more information to the brain from the body. Then vice versa, which is why I want people to understand the body translates your life more than your brain. That nerve is a prime nerve for the neurochemicals that are needed for connection and love and ease. Safety. That nerve is the way when we activate it through breath, through walking, through meditation, through gratitude, through self-compassion, and [00:14:00] many other things. When we activate it, we not only are connecting to ourselves more deeply, we're priming ourselves to feel more connected to the world around us.

In one fell swoop, we are saying to our body, you are okay. Even if life is not fully okay right now, in this moment, you are okay and we give ourselves the tools we need to step a little more boldly into the world that we may feel have betrayed us to begin with. So none of this rights the world. Okay?

The world's, the world is on fire, okay? And the world is hard and the world is broken. And I will say in parallel, I hope we all are working towards that changing every day at the same time. I wanna be able to stand in my most loving and bold self so that I can make change, so that I can live a more thriving life.

And honestly, I [00:15:00] really mean this not to be a better anyone at anything, but because I deserve it. I'm a sacred human being and so are all of you.

It might help the listeners to understand this even more practically by hearing a snippet of why this is so important to me, and I'd love to hear that. Yeah. And that is because when I was pregnant with my third child on top of the world, my second child, barely three at the time, was handed a death sentence.

And he was handed a diagnosis for what is called Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy. Many people have not heard of it, but it is like an als in children. So it is degenerative and fatal 100%. At that moment I knew I could be quote unquote resilient and tough enough, quote unquote, to get through this, but that's not what I wanted for my life.

I wanted to live it with joy, [00:16:00] and I did not think that was possible at that time As a mother who had her dream shattered in that moment, I also felt.

What I can say was more like a existential reckoning because I've been a Social Justice activist my entire professional career for 25 years, and I fight when something isn't right. I fight and I fight on the streets. I fight in the exam rooms, I fight in the courtrooms, I fight. And in that moment, there was nothing left to fight for.

There was no justice to be had. But what I can tell anyone listening is that this practice of seeking and finding joy has become my most potent medicine, and it has taught me that in my body is the deepest justice I will ever know. And that is of liberation, of safety, of ease, of reclaiming [00:17:00] my power and my ability and capacity to love and connect no matter what.

Because when the world wants to shut your heart down, it not only shuts you down to the pain like it did for me, but it also shuts you down to every other emotion and the joy. And when you can walk back gently and lovingly to meet your pain, you will find something more radical.

And that's joy. I really urge anyone listening who's saying I don't know what she's talking about. I am not only a doctor who has worked with thousands of patients with severe mental health struggles. I have done trauma work around the world. I. I am also a mother, a human who struggles and who rejoices all in the same day.

And what I can tell you is that joy is worth fighting for [00:18:00] every day no matter what.

Monica: Thank you for sharing about your son. I am gonna link to a video you shared recently of him participating in a dance off. Oh yeah. You speak of accessing joy in your body, it's clear. You pass it on to your son.

It's just incredible to see his joy in his body too. And just how you've empowered him to live his life has been really remarkable to see you, you've said a couple times, something about re going back to the pain, walking back to meet pain in your body. What

do you mean by that?

Tanmeet: I will first just say that you said that I empowered my son.

I actually think it's the other way around. Yeah. He's empowered me to find joy, but I just wanna give him credit for that. I get that. I get that. Yeah. The way to walk back is that, Look, it's primal. It's evolutionary to avoid pain. That is how we have survived. That is how we have gotten where we've gotten it is how we do that every day.

If your finger touches a hot stove, you move [00:19:00] away instantly. Thank goodness we avoid pain. Yeah, but. We want to numb out, dissociate, distract, and escape all kinds of pain. And when something feels uncomfortable and unsettling, we may not notice it. I promise you, if you step into your body more and more, you will.

We feel unsettled in our body right away. We feel some kind of discomfort. Then we work to escape it with things that don't seem so unhealthy. Sometimes it's Netflix, which by the way isn't always a bad thing. I'm just saying that those are ways that we're not always using heroin or, yeah. And so there are ways that we are wanting to escape, look away, not deal with things. And when I say walk back towards your pain, what I mean is, When is the last time you really felt sadness and thought, I'm just gonna sit here and feel it for a little longer. [00:20:00] I tell a story in the book of a mentor of mine who really has helped me understand all of these practices, and I called her one day on a rainy day where I could barely see through the windshield.

I stopped my car. This is shortly after my son was diagnosed and I was crying and it was raining, and I could not even see, and I called her and said, how am I gonna live this life? I just didn't understand how it could be possible. And the first thing she said to me that made me so pissed off was, you don't like to be sad, do you?

And I thought, yeah, F no, I don't like to be sad. Yeah, who does? Like I thought, what is this? How you help people? Because this is not helpful. Yeah, and so what I would say is if someone's listening to this, I get it. It's so hard to understand in our mind. At first, I really wanted, I just yelled at her basically until I understood by stepping into these practices [00:21:00] over and over that she was right.

I didn't wanna be sad, I didn't want this life. But the more I sat in it a little more and a little more and gave myself the understanding of what it's like to feel that sadness, the more I opened up to this blissful joy at the same time. And now I understand that life is brutal and beautiful. And like you said about connection, about joy being connection sometimes.

In the darkest moments with our son where we are feeling isolated and there is nothing left. Someone will come and give us some respite. Someone will come and give us some food. Someone will merely text me and say, I'm thinking about you because I know your life is hard. And that connection brings me back to joy.

And so it isn't that joy solves everything. I'm very [00:22:00] clear about that , joy is not a solution. It's a way to hold all the questions.

Monica: I think it's a way to not rise above them, but to move through them as your real self, as someone that you can be proud of. And at any point of the journey to say I was myself through that.

I felt it all the good and the hard. I wouldn't have thought that. A big piece to feeling more joy is to feel more of the hard things. But it makes complete sense to me. There's a difference between luxuriating and the pain Of course. Yeah. And processing it. And that's where I think a lot of your work comes into play as, again, using the body and also, therapy practices and anything else you can really get your hands on, but you can't run away from it.

It keeps finding

you. Yeah, that's what it does. Pain.

It does.

Tanmeet: Something you just said I think is very potent for people, and I want them to hear it even a different way to really cement it, which is that [00:23:00] you said, being yourself and feeling all of it.

And what I really talk about a lot in my work and in the book is that sometimes days are just hard. Monica, they're just hard. The joy is there, but it doesn't make it less hard every day. Okay? I want people to understand that, but some days my gratitude is just that I felt everything.

So I know I'm still here. I know that I'm winning. My humanity is still with me. I'm able to feel all of it, and Understanding that we are not here to make life easy. We're here to bring ease to our life is a very different framework. And I know it can sound it can almost sound to people like, it's not enough.

I just wanna all to go away,

Monica: like all the

Tanmeet: bad, all the hard. But what I will tell you is that, I walk around most days. This is [00:24:00] even with all the pain. I walk around feeling like I can't believe I get to live this life. I can't believe how beautiful my life is and how beautiful life is, and.

I would just, it's an invitation. It's an invitation to people for a different way because maybe the way you're using isn't serving you well enough. So people come up to me constantly after I give talks and say, what you said really moved me, but I couldn't do that. And I say the same thing. It's an invitation.

And I also say sometimes if we have more time, I say, and how is what you're doing working for you? And they say it's not, and I say then I invite you to a different way because I know that this sounds too hard. But what I would say is the way I was living this pain was way too hard and way harder than [00:25:00] this.

Monica: I feel like I could snap on my side again. It's it's remarkable how our lived experiences can be boiled up by research and people like you can make sense of why that's the case, but I've lived this, I understand at the meat, for those who are ready to get started in this work, let's one say that they're the person raising their hand.

They're not the person who's I couldn't do that. They're more like, yeah, that's not working for me. What I'm doing is not working. I'm ready to do a new way. What does that even look like? We're thinking more about the beginning 'cause I know there's a lot more.

Tanmeet: Yeah. Yeah. The way that I've structured the book, I'll talk about the beginning is part one is all about that beginning and so it's about a few different things.

It's about understanding the science so that you understand how this is working within you. So a lot of unpacking even deeper of the things we're talking about around the nervous system, it's about unlayering your [00:26:00] own cultural and family belief systems that may be preventing you from accessing joy, that may be making you feel you don't deserve joy.

What are those stories? And I give very practical ways of working through those. But the very first step is actually coming to an understanding for yourself of what joy means to you. And I give my touchstones for joy, but they aren't meant to be your touchstones. They are meant to inspire you to find your own.

So for instance, one of mine is that I deserve, I choose joy every day. So I help you find yours. And a very key thing, Monica, is to find your deeper why, and I really mean this because somebody listening might say the why's obvious. I wanna find joy 'cause I wanna feel better. But what I would promise you is if you unpack that through a practice of really finding your deeper why, what [00:27:00] you will find is something deeper within that keeps you going.

When it gets hard, that keeps you going when you quote unquote slip up. That keeps you on this path.

Monica: May I ask what your deeper why is?

Tanmeet: Yeah. Yeah, I'll tell you 'cause I did this practice for myself. You would think it's because I wanna have a joy, more joyful life in the face of tragedy. That is one of the top levels.

But when I really unpack it, Monica, it's that I've never felt safe in this world. Now this takes six or seven layers down for me to figure out. For people listening, what I mean is a simple practice of, what is my why? Writing it down and then saying, but why to that? And keep going until you get several layers below and you will know when you've gotten deep enough when your body relaxes a little and you notice what is gonna give you more expansion.

For me, that's several layers. Below [00:28:00] is living in my childhood with racism and trauma and loss and feeling not safe. Literally not safe. And understanding now that my whole life's work has been about making other people feel safer so that I feel safer working for the underdog. All my work in medicine has been for marginalized communities who are, not accessing the healthcare that people with resources can, because I want them to feel safer.

'cause in some way, if I can bring ease or safety to your body and your life, it reminds me I can bring it to mine. And so joy is my deepest mission for myself because it's to restore that safety in my body that was taken away for many decades.

Monica: Wow. That

beginning place is really important. I'm sure a lot of women are gonna want to avoid that, especially if they don't wanna, reckon the [00:29:00] hard that is behind even that deeper level.

But again, that's where it comes back to connection. It's the flip side of pain, is that joy. Yes. And being able to connect to that why, even if it's a little painful to uncover that part of the pain that motivates the Y is what's gonna release you to then experience this

path to joy.

Yes, and if it's helpful to your listeners, you can decide as you're listening.

I would say this is a practice I use for everything, Monica, not just joy, because the neuroscience is that the more you understand the why in the meaning of what you're doing, the more you are likely to stay with it. Okay. It has been shown over and over, so exercising to look better for someone else, never less.

'cause the deeper why isn't there. There was several years ago, I started rowing on the lake. I. This is, oh yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Not a sport that I've ever been exposed to. There aren't many brown women out there, but I [00:30:00] didn't even understand what it meant. I was like, who rose? I thought it was some preppy Ivy League thing, and for sure, but I was looking for a new way to get stronger and get fit.

Now, I had to get up at four 30 or five, three times a week to get out on the water and do this, and every time that alarm clock went off, I just wanted to go back to sleep. Honestly. And if my why had been to get more muscular and look better, those are all good. Those are all good, but those weren't deep enough to keep getting up.

And when I unpacked it several layers down, what I got to was

that if I don't get stronger as I get older, I won't be able to care for my son who's getting heavier. If I can't transfer him, if I can't care for him, how will I do this? It really became clear to me that I needed to be stronger [00:31:00] so that I could live my life with more ease. Because if my body keeps breaking down.

How will I help his body sustain itself for whatever time he has left? And so when that alarm went off every morning, the first thought was no. And the second thought was, no, I gotta do it for this reason. And then I would get up. And so those deeper whys actually anchor us in the moment into a different part of our brain that sets meaning and context to things, and that part of the brain helps us to keep going.

So I really mean this. It is almost the most essential thing. It's one of the first chapters of my book. I really feel strongly about people finding that for themselves.

For the women who also are like me and maybe they have this detachment from the body. I've been trying to work on this. Over the last few [00:32:00] years, especially as after I've identified, that's still an issue for me and it will help the healing process.

We like to end with one small way they can begin on everything we've learned and to me that might just be the one piece we haven't quite like fully hit on. And while we can't do a whole other hour, on that topic, what's one small way they can begin with this body piece of reconnecting to their body and helping with activating that vagus nerve and everything else you said.

Tanmeet: Yeah, this is really simple but not easy. What I would say is that one beautiful place to start would be just to commit to one to five minutes. I'm not asking for much time, anytime during the day to dedicate to noticing their breath. And I can tell you this is a potent and beautiful place to start.

You don't even have to set aside time. It could be one to five minutes while you're. Doing an activity you do every day, like we [00:33:00] mentioned, having tea or washing dishes or caring for your child. You have to pay attention to your child. But my favorite times I will tell you are before I go to sleep or when I wake up, but another time that I often do it is in the checkout line when I find my.

My mind just spiraling into, I don't know where it goes, like what I have to do and onto stories of like, why is this person pulling out a checkbook? Who has checks anymore? I'm just going on, so find something you're always doing, checking your email or whatever it is.

If you can say, I will spend this time noticing my breath. Nothing fancy. You don't need to deepen it. You don't need to change it. Just notice it as it goes in your mouth or nose and out. Again, where can you notice it? Easiest as it enters, as it goes down your throat, as it goes through your body as it [00:34:00] exits.

And just see if you can notice new sensations. New things in your body. Even if all you notice is distraction and boredom in your mind. People will say, if I have thoughts, then I'm failing at it, and I actually say, that's the magic moment. If you're having thoughts, that is a chance to lightly and gently come back to your breath. Over and over, and in this way, we're learning to pay attention to our body over and step back into it.

It may be the simplest, yet the most potent place to start.

Monica: Thank you for that. This whole conversation has given me so much to think about. It's also helped me make so much sense, like I said, of experiences, but also things I've been learning and I know I want to learn way more. Let's talk about your book.

Tanmeet: Yeah, thank you for asking. If people wanna purchase the book, they can just go to, joyisMy [00:35:00] justice.com and you'll have links to Everywhere Books are Sold. There's also bonuses there for anyone who buys the book. And then I'm active on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram, but the most active on Instagram.

And I love hearing from readers or listeners with their takeaways or things that they found really resonant or also challenging. And so I would love to hear from anyone

Monica: that's so generous of you. Dr. Tanmeet Sethi, this has just been the best time. Thank you for taking so much time for us out of your really busy day.

We appreciate

Tanmeet: you. Oh, it's been a real pleasure. This has been a beautiful conversation. Thank you.

I hope this episode gave you the hug and kick in the pants you need to grow. I'll now share the progress pointers. These are the notes I took so you don't have to, and those on my newsletter, get them in a graphic form each week. You can sign up at about progress.com/newsletter, and the version I share here on the podcast is a shortened version of what [00:36:00] you see in the graphic form.

Number one, joy does not equate happiness. Happiness is outcome-based, and joy is a birthright that lives in your body. Number two, start with your body. Number three, feel to heal. Number four, know your why, A deeper reason for seeking joy. And number five, joy isn't a fix. It's a way. If you do something challenge this week is to take one moment to breathe and be present.

And just so you know, coming up this fall, I have something really exciting coming. And Dr. Tanit Sethi agreed to be part of it. So if you love this conversation, you're gonna love what's coming with her then. This podcast is listener supported.

Members of the Supporters Club make my work with about progress free and available to all, and they also get access to three levels of exclusive benefits from more time to more content with me. One of those benefits includes more personal, my private premium, always ad free show where I get to lean into the personal side of personal development.[00:37:00]

Join the club by going to about progress.com/support. You can always support the show for free. I would highly recommend you share the show with a friend who you think would love it. Thank you so much for listening. Now go and do something with what you learned today. And at the same time, can you hear my dog?

Monica: I can't hear your dog. I muted my side 'cause my neighbor's dog

Tanmeet: is barking. Okay. Okay, perfect. So we'll go back and I can edit that out, which is nice.

Okay. Okay.

Why Joy Isn’t the Same as Happiness—and How to Reclaim It EVEN During a Difficult Time || with Tanmeet Sethi

So until they see a drop off in spending until the grocery stores see that we're going to be spending less because prices are more expensive, they're going to continue to raise prices because they can,

​

Monica Packer: Hi. This is Monica Packer and you are listening to about progress where we are about progress made practical.

In 2023, I noticed that my grocery bill was getting higher and higher and higher, and I began to take my frugal nature to the next level and do everything I could to save as much money as we could and disappointingly, that turned out to be very, very little. My strategies were helpful, but not to the extent where we were actually seeing it in our bank account.

And this is when I fell across my friend Rachel Koons account on Instagram and what she had to teach about. [00:01:00] Practical ways to save money on groceries. I interviewed Rachel for the podcast and since I interviewed her a few months before I aired it, I got to practice what she taught

And the savings we experienced were not only undeniable, they were honestly dramatic. That's why I'm so thrilled to share that interview with you again today. It aired in 2024. I don't normally do encore episodes of something that aired so recent, but I still think it's such a timely topic because the prices haven't really gone anywhere.

I mean, eggs have gotten worse and then they get better, and then things get worse again. So if you are in that same boat and you are eager to really have practical and doable ways to dramatically save on your groceries. This is an episode worth listening to and returning to if you listen to in the past.

Just a quick heads up, while I was in the midst of trying to work on my groceries, on my Instagram stories, I shared my honest receipts

where I would take a picture of my receipt next to my groceries and share how I was doing with my budget and what [00:02:00] was helping or not. And that became such a popular series. It's always the one that I get the most dms about, that I turned it into a free guide for you that combines the tips that I was doing on my own with the ones that I got from Rachel that really tipped me over that tipping point.

And with her permission, I'm going to share that with you very soon. So stay tuned. If you are on my newsletter or you follow me on Instagram,

You should be seeing a free way to get that guide, and we'll have it on the website soon too.

Before we share the interview, let's take a quick break for our sponsors.

​

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You know, one of my giant soapbox is the vital importance of women taking time for themselves outside of their responsibilities. While this is best practiced on the daily, sometimes we have to do something big to reconnect with ourselves. So what if you did that? But for a full week, and with me in Rome, Italy.

I am so honored to be hosting a female foodie signature tour to Rome for just the about progress community in the fall of 2026. Of course, this trip will be full of amazing food accommodations and sight seeing, but it will also reflect what women say they take the most from these trips. A deep renewal and reconnection back to themselves.

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So get a friend or five. Check out the details and get on that wait list by going to about progress.com/italy. Female foodie tours sell out in literal minutes, so it's really important that you get on that wait list again to do so go to about progress.com/italy.

 

Monica Packer: Rachel Coons. Welcome to About Progress.

Rachel Coons: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Monica Packer: I have to tell you, I have been very eager to have this conversation because my Instagram community [00:06:00] knows that I have been sharing my honest receipts of how much groceries are costing us. And part of it is because I just want to commiserate with people and relate with people. But the other part is because I am desperate to figure out How to manage my grocery costs, so let's just start with where everyone is at with this. Like, is it just us or have grocery prices skyrocketed, especially the last year?

Rachel Coons: Oh, you're a hundred percent correct. I mean, I would say that we've seen an upward trend. It's 2020 for the past four years and it's, and it's just continually going up and up and it hasn't felt like it's stabilized. Like most things have kind of stabilized, but groceries continue to grow. And it's like 40 to 50 percent we're paying more in groceries than we were on specific items than we were in 2019.

Monica Packer: And that adds up so quickly. And I think it also adds up for us because our kids are getting older and [00:07:00] eating more. So we already need to buy more food. So I'm thinking a lot of people are in that same position. Do you have any idea why that's happening? I think there's a lot of economics behind it.

I don't expect you to give us a full PhD thesis on it, but because this is your world, what do you know about why this is happening?

Rachel Coons: I, I honestly think, first off, I think inflation just as an economy, right? We're everything is more expensive than it was. I also think that if people will buy it, if the demand is there, then they can continue to. Increase prices. And, and we have to buy groceries for our family. We have to feed our families.

So until they see a drop off in spending until the grocery stores see that we're going to be spending less because prices are more expensive, they're going to continue to raise prices because they can,

Monica Packer: well, I think that's supported by, you know, the legit macro microeconomics out there that I will not even try to pretend that I remember from college. So this is when I wanna ask you if this has always been something [00:08:00] you've been into. Like, have you been always passionate about saving money on your groceries?

Or is this more of a 2020 to 2024 thing?

Rachel Coons: No, I, I always say that like this world chose me. I did not choose this world. And I don't know if I would even have. I'd like to stand on in 2019, right? It was, it was really because this has become such a problem. And I've always been a frugal person. I've always been just naturally. I don't want to spend a bunch of money, but it wasn't until this became something that I really wanted to focus on.

And I saw the benefit. Of focusing specifically on groceries when it came to our financial stability and what it could do for our family. And I started sharing it with my Instagram following and it just like lit fire, right? It was something that people are now stressed about and they're overwhelmed with how much they're spending on groceries.

And so it was kind of the time that this happened that I was able to [00:09:00] help so many people. And so it just kind of has continued to evolve from there. And I kind of just was like, I think this is the way to go. What I need to do. I think I need to sneak like lean into this and help as many people as possible.

Yeah,

Monica Packer: you did. Your ability to figure out how to save money. How did you do that? Because I feel like my, my current method of just trying a different store every week, uh, isn't working. So how did you go about figuring it out?

Rachel Coons: was, it was a refining process, right? So it was in 2020, my family, we were spending 1, 200 a month for my family of six, which isn't, that's not crazy. Most people see that and like, Oh, that's normal. But when I looked at our grocery spending, that was one of the highest Amounts we were spending every month was in our grocery budget.

And there wasn't a lot of budgets that I could significantly decrease. It was like, you know, rent and kids activities and gas and car payments and whatever, all of those things. [00:10:00] But groceries was an area that I thought that 1, 200 is a lot of money. And I think I can do something about that. And so I just started trying different things.

And like you said earlier, like I tried the couponing thing It felt like it was too much time and energy. And I'm kind of one of those people that's like, I just want to be as efficient as possible.

And so keep wanting, didn't feel efficient to me and cooking everything from scratch, didn't feel efficient.

So I just slowly started trying new things. And then it was awesome because I was able to share what I was trying with my audience. And. And then I got feedback, like tangible feedback from people were like, Oh, I just started two week grocery shopping too. And I cut my spending by 500 or whatever it was.

So I was able to take all of these things that I was trying and sharing and create a condensed. Method that then could help as many people as possible. Cause I realized that as I was saving all this money, I was able to cut our grocery spending by 500 a month, which is insane, right? That's [00:11:00] 6, 000 a year.

And. If I wanted to help people do this too, I realized I, I couldn't just teach people tips. Tips aren't how people actually make change. I was like, I need to, I need to like start to finish a to Z method that I could package up and say, this is, if you do this, you can save money. And so that's, that's where I created the shop method.

And that wasn't born until late 2022, early 2023, where that was created. And it was like, here's your plug and play system.

Monica Packer: Okay. So we're going to get to more of the differences between tips and the plug and play, um, kind of method. I'm glad to hear you're not making your own mozzarella cheese, uh, because that's,

Rachel Coons: Yes. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.

I've never done that before in my life. Actually.

Monica Packer: yeah. Okay. Nice. Nice to hear. Although I'm curious about trying it, but, but let's give them, um, Some tangible ways that they can save big, and I almost said tips, but then I hesitated. I'm sure you saw that because I was like,

[00:12:00] wait, not tips, but maybe yes, tips. I think what we're going to say here is we're, we're going to do more of a high level. Like, things you can implement now, but for deeper. And even bigger, perhaps long standing, more sustainable change. That's where your method comes into play.

Would you say that's accurate? What's

Rachel Coons: Yes. Yes. Totally. Totally. I would say like a tip is like, you know, freeze your bread or, you know, those kinds of things. This is like an overarching, what can I do differently when it comes to groceries? How can I change the way I approach this that can then save me money? So

Monica Packer: So that means we can do that right

here, right now.

Rachel Coons: Yes.

Monica Packer: Let's do it. I'm so excited. Please tell me, what are some real and practical ways people can save big on their groceries?

Rachel Coons: Okay. So there's a lot of different levers that we can pull. And what I like to do is focus on the biggest ones first, right? Where can we make the biggest impact? So the first one is shopping [00:13:00] less. So not shopping too often.

The second one would be to decrease your food waste. And then the third one would be. Everyone's going to hate me for this, but it would be meal planning, but we'll talk about it. I'm going to make meal planning not seem quite as terrible. So first one, shopping less now this in and of itself, people are like, why does shopping less mean I spend less?

Like how is that interconnected? Well, the truth is if you're going to the grocery store every couple days, maybe you're only going for one or two items. How many times do you walk into the store? For butter or eggs or whatever it is. And you walk out and you just spent 50 you come home, you unload your groceries, two days later, your kids have eaten everything that you bought.

And then you have to go back to the grocery store and you have to do it again. So we need to take out those one or two grocery trips that you're taking just for, you know, The simple items and plan better. And that means that when you go to [00:14:00] the grocery store, before you ever even think about going to the grocery store, you're creating a list, you're figuring out what you need, you know what your family needs to have on hand and you're spacing out those grocery trips.

So that way, and you'll hear me say this a lot, but that makes those grocery trips more intentional. And I really focus on intentionality when it comes to saving money on groceries, the more intentional we can be with our budget, with our spending, with our trips, the better off we're going to be. So spacing out your trips.

I, at the time when I was spending 1, 200 a month, I was shopping once a week and I thought that was really awesome. Then I realized I could shop twice a month. So I shop every two weeks and my students who shop twice a month can easily Drop, they're spending hundreds of dollars a month just by doing that.

​

Monica Packer: [00:15:00] Okay. So we start there. We just start by Shopping less, but in order to do that, I almost feel like that's going to skip to number 3, right? Like, in order to actually make those intentional shopping trips that work for you. So you aren't completely out of food in 3 days. You've got to plan ahead. So can you tell us more about meal planning?

Is it okay if we hop to that and then we'll come back to

decreasing food waste?

Rachel Coons: Yes. Okay. So I would say before you even have to meal plan before we even need to go there, it's something called an essentials list. So you may not even know this is might just be in your head and you haven't even realized it's there, but an essentials list is everything that you need to have in your house.

To stay out of the grocery store, the essential items. And my essentials list is going to be different than yours, Monica. And it's going to be different than your listeners. You have to figure out what that is for your family. But you know, some of the [00:16:00] basics would be like bread, butter, eggs, milk, cheese, those kinds of things, those essential items that are forcing you, what is forcing you to go to the grocery store when you end up going and, and making sure that whatever's on that essentials list, when you go to the grocery store, you're.

Making sure that you stock up on those items and you have those in your fridge at all times. You don't want to run out of those essential items. Flour, sugar, brown sugar, those kinds of things are also on your essentials list. I also like to keep my breakfast and lunch ingredients on that list. And then two or three dinners planned on that list.

So that way, if all else fails, I don't have to go to the grocery store for a week because I have everything in that essentials list.

So that essentials list is going to be what I would focus on first before meal planning, and working from that essentials. This is going to help you stay out of the store. And then when we talk about meal planning, instantly people's eyes [00:17:00] glaze over, right?

Nobody likes meal planning. Meal planning is, is not fun. And if you ask me, I actually hate meal planning. I don't enjoy it. So that's why I only do it twice a month. And I've really tried Simplify that process. So making it really, really simple. We eat very similar breakfasts and lunch every day. So I never have to meal plan breakfast and lunch dinner is.

Four meals a week. That's all, that's all I meal plan for. And, um, obviously we have resources inside my membership that helps you meal plan, but basically all you need is 10 meals that, you know, your family likes to eat. Right? 10 meals that are easy for you. You know, your kids are going to eat it when you make it.

You have that list of 10 meals and you just shuffle through. You don't have to reinvent the wheel when it comes to creating dinners. It can be really basic and really simple. [00:18:00] And um, that's one of the things that I really focus on with meal planning because We all have so much on our plates as moms, right?

We have to do the laundry. We have to clean. We have to get our kids to their activities. We got, you know, there's so many things. And if there's something that's hard, takes a lot of energy, makes our brains work. And it's not, it's optional. It's not necessary. It falls to the bottom of the list. And that's usually what happens with meal planning.

So what I like to do is let's, Figure out why meal planning is so important. Saving money, also saving time, lowering your stress, and hopefully that meal planning will just get higher up on your list of priorities just by seeing how easy it can be and how helpful it can be.

So when you say you do four meals, when you plan four meals, like a week, are you eating leftovers those other nights or do you reserve a night to eat out? What does that look like?

Rachel Coons: Question. So the reason we do four [00:19:00] meals a week, and this is kind of our sweet spot. Again, everybody has to find their sweet spot. But I find that if families are meal planning seven meals a week, they're probably overbuying. You're probably buying too much food. So this is what it looks like. Four meals I plan for and buy for.

The one meal, one night a week, we do a leftover night. Just to make sure we're using up what we have on hand one night a week, we do a shop the shelf night. So this is a night that I am not planning for. I don't buy any ingredients for, and we're just, I mean, how much food do we have on hand? We have so much food always.

So that just makes me get creative and use up what's in the freezer, what's in the fridge, those perishable items. Let's shop the shelf night. And then one night a week. One night a week is a, a date night. So I'm off Brad and I go out to dinner. There's a babysitter that comes, they eat Mac and cheese or chicken nuggets or whatever it is.

And if you don't want to do a date night, just have a night off, right? Give yourself a break. You don't, this is, this is something that can really tire us. And [00:20:00] so I look forward to that night off. Every week, it's the night I look forward to, I

Monica Packer: much. I think two things that really helps with that, that you just pointed out is doing it twice a month

feels more doable. And the other part that feels more doable is not looking through all the recipe books and recipe apps. Although you can do that if that's your thing and that's where you get a lot of joy or it's just, you know, something you do occasionally to add to your recipe stock. But having those go to meals that you can just say, I know how to make these things. I don't even need a recipe or I already know where the recipe is and I can just pull from there. I actually would love some specifics if that's okay. Like I want to know what your usual breakfast and lunches are. And I would love to know, you talked about having on your essentials list items that can help you make three meals, you know, no matter what, like we always have frozen chicken.

So we can always bake some chicken or we always have rice in the pantry, [00:21:00] like those kinds of things. So can you give us some specifics there? I think they'd love to

Rachel Coons: Absolutely. Okay. So for breakfast, it's like four meals. We do waffles. We do eggs and toast. We probably do eggs and toast 50 percent of the mornings cause it's protein. It's healthy. My kids love it. Uh, we'll do Greek yogurt parfaits with like fresh fruit and granola and then we'll do smoothies and toast like a protein smoothie and toast.

Like that's it. That's it. Those are the four options. Sometimes we'll throw in some fun different things on the weekends, on a school day. Those are the options. Super simple. I always have ingredients for all of those meals on hand all the time.

Monica Packer: And that's cheaper than cereal? I,

I'm saying that for, okay.

Rachel Coons: Yes. Yes. Well, and okay. Not only, so this is a lot, this is like side tangent.

A lot of the pushback that I'll get from people is I can't eat healthy on a budget. I can't save money if I want to eat healthy. And, um, first off, I just don't [00:22:00] think that's true. And second, how sustainable is cereal for breakfast, right? It's high in carbs. It's high in sugar most of the time. But if we're feeding our children high protein, It's a well rounded meal with fats, with carbs, with protein.

They're going to be fuller for longer. And so it ends up, you ends up spending less money in the long run when you eat those healthy whole foods. So yes,

Monica Packer: And I can vouch for that. I just have to say, yeah, vouch for that. Because that's, that's, that's why we make breakfast. And it's because they actually get fuller and it saves money. But it's nice to hear that you can confirm it is cheaper than cereal.

Rachel Coons: I think so. I mean, I think like 7 a box for cereal. That's crazy.

Monica Packer: Yeah, it's a lot

Rachel Coons: Yeah, no, I think eggs are eggs are really affordable source of protein. So I really love feeding my kids eggs and it has, you know, the good fats from the yolk and it's a very well [00:23:00] rounded meal. And then for lunch, lunch is a little bit trickier because my kids are at school for that and, um, we live in California, so they do get.

Lunch from school. My daughter likes to pack a lunch. She usually just does like some fruit, some crackers and a sandwich. That's what she packs for lunch. Most days for me, I'll make like an egg white sandwich or a salad with whatever I have in hand or, leftovers. Like that's a, that's a perfect time for me to eat leftovers.

I'm kind of more flexible with lunch cause I'm just home with my three year old. But I do like to eat leftovers. I tend to eat a lot of eggs. So I'll do eggs cause it's an easy, quick protein. If I have rotisserie chicken on hand, I'll make like grilled cheese, whatever. So that's, that's for lunch. And then for dinner, some of the ingredients that I always have on hand.

Right. That's what you were asking,

I think. So first off, um, I always make sure that I have vegetables. We always have vegetables on hand, but I [00:24:00] always have the basic vegetables like broccoli, onions, carrots, so I can make a stir fry. That's like one of my favorite go tos.

Monica Packer: And are

Rachel Coons: kids like it. Fresh. Yeah. I mean, I have frozen too, but most of the time it's fresh.

So I love stir fry cause I just do chicken with teriyaki sauce and rice and my kids love it and they'll eat the broccolis and carrots, whatever. So stir fry is one of our favorites. We also love spaghetti and meatballs in the instant pot. It's the easiest meal ever. Like you literally dump four ingredients into an instant pot.

You've set it on for eight minutes and it's done. made. I love it. My kids love it too. Um, and then we also love chicken fried rice. So again, just a basic rice, whatever veggies I have on hand, chicken, very simple. And then another one we love is tacos. We, we have tacos probably once every two weeks. Cause it's just so easy and my family loves it.

Monica Packer: Thank you so much for sharing those specifics. I'm like [00:25:00] still drumming with all these questions. I feel like the two that are top of mind are what about snacks? Because I think that can, that can be a big source of consumption and also money.

Rachel Coons: Yeah. So snacks tend to be a huge budget buster, uh, because It's really easy to focus on the convenience of snacks. So we're purchasing like the prepackaged snacks or whatever it is. So this goes back to like my health and wellness. Experience with food and trying to eat as healthy as possible.

And also raising children actually hate snacks. I find that if my kids are eating snacks, they're not eating their meals. And so we absolutely, they need to eat a snack in between meals. I'm not like starving my children, but we are, I'm very organized when it comes to the snack process. So when they get home from school, they get to have a snack, but the kitchen closes at four o'clock because I want them hungry, they're going to eat healthier.

Right. Cause they're going to eat a more well balanced meal at dinnertime. [00:26:00] And it's going to be way more cost effective meals are cheaper than snacks. But that doesn't mean we don't have snack foods on hand. I just focus our snacks heavily around whole foods and we don't do a lot of process.

So like string cheese and fruit or a smoothie or toast. Greek yogurt, you know, those kinds of things, which are super quick, easy and convenient, but they just require a little bit more forethought than just grabbing a bag of goldfish at the pantry. Those snacks are great for grab and goes if you're eating it out of the house, but in the house, I do require a little bit more and I'm happy to do that for my kids.

I don't make my kids do that, but I will cook up something really fast for them.

​

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A-I-R-D-O-C-T-O-R-P-R o.com using promo code Monica. As you've likely heard this year, I am writing a book on flexible habit formation for busy women. I've had some very exciting developments lately on the book front from getting a literary agent and my first offer from a traditional publisher, this book is officially going to happen.

But the thing is, I can't do it alone. I need a committee of gal pals, if you will, like you who are ready to be my early test readers, to pre-order the book and to act as grassroots publicists the moment each of those steps are made ready. Would you like to be on that book launch committee and as part of it,

get the latest updates on where I'm at, including Stink Peaks at the title cover and more. Get on the list by going to about progress.com/book committee. It's free, and the link is in the show [00:29:00] notes for you. I can't wait to share as much as I can with you along the way, and I am so eager to get this book out into the world and in your hands.

Again. To get all the behind the scenes about the book and to help with its release, go to about progress.com/book committee.

Monica Packer: Okay. And the other big question I think is just produce. Uh, we have some kids that are big produce lovers and, uh, and two of them happen to be very picky eaters otherwise. So like it's actually a good source of food for them to eat, but it would go bad except apples. Apples are great, but they stay fresher, longer, you know, carrots, stuff like that.

But What would you say for the people who are a bit concerned about having enough of the fresh foods to last for two weeks, or if you have another thing that they can think of instead that will still help with that?

Rachel Coons: Yeah. So, the two week grocery shopping, that's the number one thing people say is I'm not going to be able to have my fresh produce that I need on hand. And [00:30:00] the truth is there's a lot of produce that won't last two weeks. And I'm, I have to acknowledge that, you know, berries. They won't even last a

stinking week in the fridge,

um, but there is a lot of produce items that will last two weeks.

And so what I focus on is making sure that I have a lot of those produce items that will last. So like oranges, apples, we also use our freezer a lot for fruit. Uh, so we always have like frozen raspberries, frozen blueberries. frozen bananas in the freezer. Um, and then if, if you're one of those people and maybe, you know, everyone's different, right?

Everyone has different needs, different things that they're dealing with in their family. And if you have a child who only wants to eat fresh blueberries, then go ahead and meal plan for two weeks at a time, do your bulk grocery order. And then on that second week, just do a produce run. Just get the produce while either if you're shopping in store, you're only heading to like the produce aisles or if you're shopping online, just get the produce.

You mean, it's not, [00:31:00] this is not an all or none type of thinking, right? We can kind of find the gray area in this. And so it's not, it's not going to ruin you if you have to go. Go get produce in between grocery runs.

Monica Packer: I so appreciate that flexibility because as someone who typically loves prescriptions, but they don't actually pan out. in real life a lot, uh, that's really helpful to say like, okay, take, what's going to work for you and your family from what you hear today. And if it doesn't, that doesn't mean you just throw it all away.

It's it's find another way to help in ways that are still manageable, but intentional, like we've talked about. These have been such great

tips. I want to go back to your food waste, lever, like you talked about. So tell us more about that. Food waste.

Rachel Coons: So just to start that off. And I think this is a really startling statistic that average American family wastes 30 percent of the food that they buy.

That means that if you go to the grocery store, you spend a hundred [00:32:00] dollars on your way out, you literally could just waste it. Throw a bag away in the trash, because that's what we're doing.

And beyond the like sustainability and, you know, eco problems with that, when you throw food, when you throw food away, that's food waste, that's perishables that have gone bad or leftovers or whatever is that's, that's, that's. Exactly money waste. Wait, we're throwing away food and so that is a little bit daunting, but also on the other hand of that, when we can decrease or eliminate food waste altogether, we can decrease spending by 30 percent because that's what that's what we're doing with the food waste.

The food waste is perishable items. It's not our shelf stable canned goods. It's mainly the things like the produce, the dairy, the carbs, or what the breads or whatever that we have. So in order to decrease food waste, there's a lot of things that we can do. But first off, just by listening to this podcast and being [00:33:00] conscious to this issue, you're now going to kick yourself when that bag of spinach goes bad in the fridge.

Cause you're going to hear my voice and you're Dang, you know, I, I shouldn't be throwing away this bag of spinach, but, um, again, going back to shopping less and meal planning, it is making sure that you are using up what you have on hand before you think about going to the grocery store. Is it so great that the grocery store is so convenient and we can literally just go buy whatever we need at any point, but it's also our biggest downfall when it comes to overspending, because we don't think about using up what The produce items that are about to go bad.

We want to go buy more. And this is my term. I call it shop the shelf, but you need to focus on shopping the shelf before you shop the grocery store. And that's going to help you decrease food waste because you're using up those items. Another thing that is really, really helpful when it comes to trying to decrease food waste is having a second freezer.

If you have the space for it, um, [00:34:00] because the second a produce item is about to go bad. Don't let it go bad, throw it in a Ziploc bag and put it in the freezer. There are so many things that you can freeze, um, that really help you stay out of the grocery store for longer and help you have those fresh produce items.

And frozen produce is the exact same nutritional content. If not, sometimes better because you can freeze it at peak ripeness, than just normal produce as well.

Monica Packer: Okay. I'm thinking, oh, I, I can do this. And, and as I

Rachel Coons: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Monica Packer: I'm going to go back to the initial kind of confession. I had to you that my method was to just keep trying different stores to see if that saves me money. And, um, I do think, though, there's got to be some stories that are better than others in terms of,

you know, doing your. Twice monthly, grocery run. So what in your experience have been the go to stores that most people will likely have access to?

Rachel Coons: Okay. [00:35:00] So we have students globally and every, you know, every area of the world has different students. Grocery stores, but this is what I will say, whatever grocery store near you offers online ordering with a pickup option or delivery option. That is the store I would head to first. That's going to be your best option.

And every store is differently different. Every area is different. In my hometown, we have a lot of different options, but I enjoy Sam's club because they let me order online and pick up outside. And then I also do a Walmart delivery order twice a month because I can do it online. So any store that's going to offer that is, is going to be the best option that

Monica Packer: Are there any stores that you would advise avoiding? I mean, that might still depend on people's budgets, but that the ones that you tend, you know, I'm just thinking about my Costco trip this week. So that's why I'm like, Oh,

Rachel Coons: you, I know I'm gonna, I'm going to get some hate for [00:36:00] this, but Costco is a really dangerous place. People think that they're saving money when they shop at Costco. And then they come into my world and I say, okay, I want you to price match what you're purchasing at Costco versus what you would purchase at like a local grocery store or Walmart or whatever.

And they're astonished at how much more they could save just by switching where they're shopping. The dangerous thing about Costco is Well, there's a lot of things that I bought of beef that I have with Costco. They're not going to sponsor me anytime soon, but, but, um, they don't offer the generic option in a lot of items, right?

You're having to purchase the name brand and there's no hate for name brand. It just ends up being more expensive. And then the other big thing is. You have no idea how much you're spending until you get to the checkout. And how many times do we just go to Costco? And it's so fun. we get to do taste testers and there's new items we want to try.

And then we get up to the [00:37:00] front and you check out and you're spending 500. And, you know, for some people that might not be a burden, but for most, that is a huge budget buster. So it, it, again, it takes out the intentionality. They want you to spend as much possible in their store and you have no way of tracking how much you're spending.

But if you did it online, if they offered like an online ordering, I don't think I would have as much of a beef with Costco, but because of that, I think you will just do better if you shopped where you could shop online.

Monica Packer: Well, I know you can do it through Instacart, but in my experience, like most items are priced a dollar more

Rachel Coons: Yes, Instacart is really expensive. Yeah,

Monica Packer: Really expensive. So I didn't even know Sam's club. See, I just thought they were comparable Sam's club and Costco that they were like the same, but they're not. Okay. So I should check out a Sam's club.

Rachel Coons: yeah. Sam's Club each item tends to be a little bit cheaper, so like a dollar, $2 cheaper, which isn't a big deal if you're going to get one item, but if you're getting 50 [00:38:00] items, that's a big chunk. And then Sam's Club does offer online ordering, or if you shop in store, they offer, scan and go.

So on your, on your phone, you scan the item and it'll pull up your subtotal, like you can see how much you're spending. So that, I love that tool. I know, I know. It's great. Yeah.

Monica Packer: Okay. And so just on a typical month for you, do you just alternate those two stores for you? And in one store, you know, you might be getting more like canned kind of goods or, you know, things like that, like at the bulk store and otherwise, just more of a normal kind of grocery run that people might think about, or is that just all intuitive based on need and all that?

Rachel Coons: Yeah. So the way that I do it is every two weeks I meal plan, I order my groceries. I do both a Walmart and a Sam's club Walmart. I get delivered Sam's club. I go pick up, but then as I'm ordering, I can price match between the two stores. So, you know, sometimes there's quite a bit cheaper item at Walmart and I'll make sure that I'm getting the best deal.

Then I, Order [00:39:00] online, I get my groceries delivered or pick it up and then I'm set for two weeks, but I do that every two weeks from both stores. And I don't think shopping at five different grocery stores is the answer to saving money, but I do think it is great to shop from two different stores, because.

You know, stores offer deals on certain items like Costco and Sam's club. You can get your meat a lot cheaper. So I really like to purchase my meat, my dairy, my produce, those kinds of things from Sam's club

Monica Packer: Okay. I'm going to be checking out Sam's club after this. Um, you know, and, and price matching, I think can be confusing for us. Do you find like, it's just To do it more on the cent per ounce or pound or however they do it.

Rachel Coons: grounds. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's, so that's another thing about. Costco that can be tricky is you think you're saving money by purchasing in bulk, but then when you price it out, the price per ounce, sometimes it's not cheaper that way. And if, you know, not everybody has massive families, [00:40:00] sometimes you don't even need the eight avocados that Costco gives you when you purchase produce.

So again, Costco tends to have a lot of food waste if you're not using up those perishable items. So then that's when I would shop at that local grocery store and get your produce items from there.

Monica Packer: And cost per ounce. That's what

we're going to be paying attention to. I feel like reading between the lines. I can see why this matters. And I think it's hard to talk about grocery shopping without getting really into this kind of fear and scarcity mindset almost about things. And so maybe you can, you know, end with a high note for us and tell us more about the benefits of this and how it can lead to more abundance in many areas of your lives.

Like, what, [00:41:00] why should they be considering this at least and trying to move the needle a bit more?

Rachel Coons: Sure, it's actually really funny that you say that because I am in the budgeting space, and I recognize that, but sometimes I hate being here because of the scarcity mindset that comes from it. I really want people to just, again, going back to that intentionality. It's not about scarcity.

It's just about being intentional and you get to decide where you want to spend your money. And I am never going to tell you what your priorities should be. I'm not going to tell you what store you should shop at, what items you should purchase. That's not. On me, that's on you. And so beyond that, once we get to, you know, that mindset, the money savings that can be had with this are mind blowing, right?

I have students. I had a student who messaged me a couple of weeks ago. She's been in, The shop society for five months and she saved 5, 000 in five months. So [00:42:00] huge money savings and that can unlock so much financially. I mean, if you invested a thousand dollars every single month, you know, for the next 10 years, imagine where that would put you, but beyond the money savings.

And that's the really kind of sexy part of what I do is the money savings. But beyond that, I want to help moms. feel like meal planning is easier. Dinner time is easier. It's a part of mom life that people hate. Nobody, nobody wants to cook dinner every night. It's just a drag, you know?

So I really believe that when we implement the shop method and use the things that I do, it makes your life. So much easier. You're saving so much time and this is no longer something that's a burden anymore. So you're saving all this money, but you also get all these other benefits as well. And, and that's what I love.

When moms come to me and say, I finally am not dreading 5 pm every night because I have a dinner plan. I know what I'm doing and [00:43:00] I feel my kids are going to eat the meals that I cook. And it's just this all around, just a better experience.

Monica Packer: I love hearing that. Rachel, you have been so abundant about what you have given us today and all this information. It's just so generous of you. So thank you for over delivering on all these practical tips. I would love to direct people to your membership, the shop society, where you teach the shop method. Is there anything you want them to know about your membership?

Rachel Coons: mean, there's, there's so much that we offer in the shop study beyond the shop method. There's a ton of resources. It's an awesome community. And it's really, really affordable. I really want it to be tangible for all families. So that is available, but if you're like a little bit hesitant about that, I do offer a lot of other free guides and things that you can get started with as well.

And we can link those in the show notes for your listeners as well. Again, following me on Instagram will [00:44:00] probably help as well. So you can always come find me on my social media channels, reach out, let me know if you have any questions. I I'm here to help. Anyone and everyone who wants it. Oh,

okay. So by the time this podcast release, hopefully my podcast will be released. Uh, and it'll just be called the Hey Rachel Koons podcast. I'm so excited. It's something that I've been looking forward to for a long time and we're finally making it happen.

Monica Packer: And what can they expect in this new podcast?

Rachel Coons: So Yeah. So the podcast is going to be obviously, you know, I'm all about saving money on groceries, but it's going to be all things when it comes to motherhood and abundance and, and those kinds of things. So yeah, we're definitely going to have some tangible episodes that can help you save money on groceries, but we're going to do.

The whole gamut when it comes to motherhood and what I've experienced and how, how I can bring other people in, other experts in as well, we'll do solo episodes [00:45:00] and guest episodes and Monica, we're going to do an episode together too, which I'm really excited about.

Monica Packer: Oh, I can't wait. It's going to be so great. Well, I'm looking forward to that launch. I'll be one of your first subscribers, , to your new show. And I am so grateful again for all the time that you took today. We will link to everything in the show notes for them. Thank you so much, Rachel. I appreciate your time.

Rachel Coons: Thanks, Monica.

Monica Packer: All right. I feel like I'd never know how to end this.

 

I Hope this episode gave you the hug and kick in the pants you need to grow. I'll now share the progress pointers. These are the notes I took so you don't have to, and those of my newsletter, get them in a graphic form each week. You can sign up at about progress.com/newsletter, and the progress pointers I will share here will be a simplified version of what's in that graphic form.

Number one, shop less often. Consider biweekly grocery trips. [00:46:00] Number two, create an essentials list of your items that must always be in stock. Number three, simplify meal planning. You only need about 10 go-to meals. And number four, be strategic with snacks and produce. And number five, shop the shelf first.

Your Do Something challenge this week is to check out the Money Moms Club via a free class that Rachel has for it. The original membership that she had was called The Shop Society, but now it's the Money Moms Club, and it's not just about grocery savings, it's about how to become the CFO of your family, how to start investing, how to budget better, and other ways that you can put money back into your family's bank account.

That class will tell you more about how to save money on groceries, but also includes an affiliate link to the Money Moms Club, which I am a part of, and have been such a big fan of.

And again, watch for the guide. That should be out by now. But if not, regardless if you are on the newsletter or on my Instagram, you'll see that free guide where it's a lot of these tips [00:47:00] combined with the ones that have worked really well for me.

And it also includes our go-to meals including what we do for breakfast lunches, snacks, dinners, and examples of meal plannings that we do and what's on our essentials list, and so much more. So again, stay tuned by being on my Instagram and on my newsletter.

This podcast is listener supported. Members of the Supporters Club make my work with about progress free and available to all. They also get access to three levels of exclusive benefits from more time to more content with me, including my private premium, always after podcast more personal where I get to lean into the personal side of personal development.

Check out becoming a supporter by going to about progress.com/support. Thank you so much for listening. Now go and do something with what you learned today.

 

Rachel Coons: So that essentials list is going,

Monica Packer: Oh, sorry. I'll cut out [00:48:00] my interruption there. How about you finish your thought?