The Hidden Need Behind Emotional Eating, Scrolling, and Other Numbing Habits + How to Help || Coaching Call with Alise

In this episode, I sat down with Elise Kirk to explore her journey with emotional eating, a coping mechanism that reveals more about deeper unmet needs than a lack of discipline. As a mother of five, Elise candidly shared how her struggles with dysregulation affect her everyday life, leading us to uncover the wisdom hidden in her behaviors. Our conversation delved into understanding how seemingly negative habits can be symptoms of stress, social rejection, and overwhelming demands.

Through our discussion, I found myself reflecting on the importance of self-compassion over self-criticism. Together, we identified practical ways Elise could start addressing her depleted energy levels, focusing on true self-care beyond the surface. This episode is not only about recognizing the roots of one’s habits but also about holding space for personal growth in a way that's meaningful and realistic.

Complementary episodes: Interviews with Sabrina Magnan, Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith, and Alyssa Blask Campbell; Solo episode on Numbing Out

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TRANSCRPT

Monica Packer: [00:00:00] oftentimes when we find ourselves in that place whether it's social media or watching TV or emotional eating or playing games.

All these kinda numbing behaviors. We always hear the analogy, like, "You can't , pull from an empty well." Like, there has to be something in that well. But for a lot of us, especially as moms, you're not just pulling from an empty well.

You're pulling from an empty, leaking well. There are cracks in this well. ,

 

Hi, this is Monica Packer, and you're listening to About Progress, where we are about progress made practical In June, I aired an interview I was nervous to. Uh, it was a tricky topic, one that I had alluded to over many years' time, many solo episodes, many interview episodes, but I never had addressed head-on, and it was emotional eating.

I welcomed my guest, Sabrina Magnan, a food freedom coach, and she shared her own journey of [00:01:00] working through restriction and binge eating and food obsession, and she explained how our eating patterns are often serving a deeper purpose and how to heal that relationship with our food. Anyway, it was a fantastic interview, and I ended up hearing a lot about it, and one of the commenters was a progressor named Elise. The episode gave her a lot of ahas, and she wanted to be coached more in the application of it, though.

Elise kindly agreed to let me share that coaching session with you today. And we start by talking about emotional eating, but it quickly became about something much bigger. What happens when busy women are so depleted and dysregulated that their brains reach for easy ways to cope, whether that's food, scrolling, TV, or other numbing behaviors?

I coach Elise through understanding her behaviors better and responding to them differently. And this first begins by owning that what appears to be a [00:02:00] lack of willpower is really a lack of energy and capacity and rest and connection or time to ourselves. At its core, this coaching call is about recognizing how our bad habits, the ones we're trying to fix, are actually symptoms of deeper depletion and how in restoring that depletion first, then we can better address the habits.

As you listen, I'm sure you are going to think of someone in your life who could really benefit from listening or who would relate to you relating to this information. So as you listen, copy the URL of this episode and share it with them. That coaching call with Elise is coming up after a quick break for our sponsors

 

You are not bad at habits. You've just been using methods designed for men. My first book will be published this fall. It's called Sticky Habits: A Woman's Guide to Reclaim Happiness, Ditch Perfectionism, [00:03:00] and Create Habits That Last. It's set to release September 8th, but you can pre-order the book right now for three special pre-order bonuses, from a listening companion guide that took me hours and hours to create to a free pass to my online course, Finding Me, and our exclusive virtual launch party on September 8th with some special guests, This book is not about doing more. It's about building habits that survive real life, creating routines that flex instead of break, letting go of perfectionism that keeps you quitting, and learning how to keep promises to yourself.

and that's even on the hard days. In a world of self-help that too easily ignores the invisible labor women carry, that changes everything, because women must do habits differently. Sticky Habits will teach you how. Please pre-order the book now and check out the special pre-order bonuses again by going to stickyhabitsbook.com.

That's linked for you in the show notes. I am so thrilled for this book to be out in the world. It is several years in the making, and I know it will change so much for you. [00:04:00] Again, go to stickyhabitsbook.com to pre-order the book now

 

Monica Packer: Elise, welcome to this coaching call with me. Thanks for being here.

Alise: Thank you, Monica.

Monica Packer: Can you tell everybody a little bit about you?

Alise: Sure. Uh, my name's Elise Kirk, and I live with my family of five children and my husband.

I actually grew up abroad. I'm from Romania originally. Yeah. And I came here to school, and I served a mission and then worked in politics. And once I had my first child, I switched to more of gigs and contract work and whatnot. Um, so I launched a business of leather bags and, um- Yeah ... diaper bags back in 2018, and I also do interpreting, um, for-

Monica Packer: Wow

Alise: immigration court currently and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, so.

Monica Packer: [00:05:00] That's amazing. I mean, from politics to leather bags to interpreting, that's quite a history right there. What brought you to the, to a coaching call today?

Alise: Yes. So, um, listening to one of your episodes, uh, more recently with Sabrina- Mm ... um, she brought up a kind of a new angle when it comes to eating right and maybe dieting or not dieting, just all of that sphere, and it was how when we're dysregulated, we tend to not have balance in that area of our lives.

Monica Packer: Okay. And what about that gave you an a-ha? Like, how did you see that showing up for you?

Alise: So funny enough, and not really funny 'cause that's how things line up, the beginning of this year I had another great realization that I was being dysregulated just overall in my life.

Monica Packer: Mm.

Alise: Um, and the way I saw it manifesting was with social [00:06:00] situations, and I just- Mm ... um, kind of took to heart certain scenarios and things that were bothering me and hurting me in a way that it surprised me. So I stood back and I got curious about it, and I kept thinking- Mm ... and just kind of searching when I got curious- Mm ... I realized, wow, maybe the root of all of these things are me being dysregulated.

Um-

Monica Packer: Okay ...

Alise: which it was a new concept.

Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.

Alise: And also knowing that, it kind of switched all my perspective and take on what was, what I was going through.

Monica Packer: So this is something I experienced too, and it kind of translates to almost every coaching client I've go, go, you know, work with, is that we all have this moment or series of moments that help us see this is not the way I would normally be in this situation.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: Whether it's with your kids or another relationship or socially- Mm ... or if something goes wrong in the household [00:07:00] or you have a disappointment and the way you're showing up to it, it's kind of like, wait, that's not me. That's not me. Mm. And I think that's a great way to describe dysregulation. It's when you don't feel like you are in the driver's seat, like you're not really quite making choices that are your own.

Um, and, and we know that is in large part thanks to just a survival mode that kicks in. Yeah. Um, we have lots of great episodes on that. I- you seem really well-versed in that, so I, I just mention that for people who are wondering more about what dysregulation is. It's a, a survival instinct, and that came up with Sabrina's episode on emotional eating.

Yeah. And so for you today, you're here because it helped you see the root of all of my maybe issues that I'm facing, even socially or maybe in other ways too, all comes back to dysregulation?

Alise: So much of it, yes.

Monica Packer: Yes. So since you're already being so curious about this, what do you think is kind of this missing piece in the puzzle for you? Like how are you still seeing this show up for you in ways that worry you? Or [00:08:00] is there another part that you're like, "I know I need to work on this next, but I'm not quite sure how"?

Alise: I think, um, the realization I had listening to your episode was that, wow, just as it's impacted my social life and the way I show up for my kids, this explains so much why food has occupied so much of, um, my mind and, um...

Like, last year I tried everything, like the cleansing diets and working out super intensely, and nothing happened. Mm. And then I even, I even tried the trycepitides for, like, um- Mm ... six months of last year, and it worked well, but, you know, that's not it either. It wasn't for me anyway. Yeah, okay. Be- be- because at the end of the, the shot, y- you would feel, like, crazy and out of your mind.

Mm. And you just wanted to consume- Right ... all carb and sweets and all that. So I [00:09:00] wanted to actually feel more in tune with my body and what it needs and all that. Okay. Um, but again, I didn't quite ha- had this other, uh, piece of puzzle, and it explained a lot because I would talk to one of my best friends, who also has five kids, um, who lives across the country, and her and I would always go through phases like, "Oh, we need to quit sugar.

We need to get healthy." And in theory, I kind of know what it takes, and I just tell her, like, "I just don't feel like I have it in me at this stage of life."

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Alise: Um, I feel like there's just too many demands, and dealing with my kids' requests and demands and holding the house together, I just don't wanna do this other thing too.

It would feel like too much. But I didn't understand why I felt that way.

Monica Packer: Mm.

Alise: And it kind of explains it, like, yes, I am being dysregulated because of all these demands and not reacting to it better, I guess.

Monica Packer: Okay. I, I feel like you really exemplify a lot of wisdom. [00:10:00] Uh, you're paying attention. You're getting curious.

You are listening to yourself, and as part of that, you're listening to the resistance. I mean, you've, you tried a lot of things, right?

Alise: Yes.

Monica Packer: But from what it sounds like is you're a- able to identify, like, those things actually added to the stress and the overwhelm instead of helping you deal with the root issues, right?

Alise: Yes. Okay. And you know, I tried the calorie tracking, and again,, it didn't feel sustainable, and I also did not like doing it. And I remembered of sometimes in college I would be so obsessed to get those As in my classes, and I would work so much and do so much that I would drive myself crazy and I would get to the point that I'm like, "You know what?

I'm just gonna stop caring." Yeah. I'm like, "The heck with this. I'm just not gonna do this anymore." And as soon as I would step back, things would like actually work out on their own. Uh-huh. And as soon as I relaxed- Yeah ... I almost had better results because I relaxed.

Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.

Alise: [00:11:00] And I kind of felt the same way with Sabrina.

And I might not lose the 10 to 20 pounds that I would love to lose, but just the fact that I'm giving myself that break and that respiro, like that's not the right way. I shouldn't obsess over this. Um, I do... At least I'm not obsessed with eating all the time. Like, I eat what I want and then leave it away.

Like, leave it alone- Yeah ... for the next while, you know?

Monica Packer: Yeah. So it sounds like you want a, a relationship with food that isn't about micromanaging, nor is it about apathy, but it's about listening to your body and like a sustainable, kind of healthy relationship. Um, and as part of that, you're identifying that that involves figuring out how emotional eating is actually trying to help you with the dysregulation piece, and that's what we gotta get clear on.

And, um, before we do that, this is for you and for those listening too, which I not normally shout out the people who are listening, [00:12:00] but in my book coming up, Sticky Habits, on the whole part, three chapters worth that I have on bad habits, I talk about a client in particular who was working on emotional eating.

And I say that because emotional eating is really loaded with a lot of layers, and it's also loaded in terms of it being appropriate to work on with the right kind of person. Like, we have to be really careful that what someone describes as emotional eating isn't actually disordered eating or an eating disorder.

Okay. But from what you've described to me, and this is how it was with this client too that I share in the book, and I hesitated 'cause I'm like, "I don't want to talk about something that-" You know, as actually more of a disordered. So, but I had to talk about where she was at with her, and I wanna kinda make sure that's the clarity for you, too.

Is this is a coping mechanism, and that's how all emotional eating starts, and that's how all eating disorders start, is it's a coping mechanism at its root. It's coping with [00:13:00] the stress of being human, of being dysregulated. So I wanna get clear on what that looks like for you and then to what degree, so then we can better help you.

But from what you've described so far, it sounds like more in the , emotional eating camp instead of, like, disordered eating. But we'll talk more about it, too. So I just wanna make sure that's really clear, too, because if there's ever something more than that, that's when I'm like, "Let's get you... Like, let's find out, like, a good therapist that would be perfectly, um, better suited for that," I would say.

 

Monica Packer: So with that, when we're thinking about emotional eating, and you don't have to get into super details if you're not comfortable, but if you can think of a time maybe in the recent past where you found yourself emotionally eating and what that looked like and felt like, um, can you describe to me [00:14:00] w- in the moment, what was that experience like?

Alise: If I were to encapsulate it in, um, in a few states, I would certainly say that it's when I am on a low state of being, a low emotional state. Maybe when I've had some disappointing social interactions.

Monica Packer: Okay.

Alise: When I feel, uh, maybe neglected- Mm ... and not chosen by others as much- Okay ... as I would want to be chosen.

When I was on social media, I mean, it could've been even a dumb comment that someone made or that- Okay ... commented to my comment, and that just put me in a little funk. Sure. Which is ridiculous, but it did have that effect. Um, and then on a very basic level, I think it's just when all my kids want me all at once, and- Okay

their demands are [00:15:00] placed, like, literally on my shoulders. Um, yes, food can feel, , as maybe, like, the one thing that I can enjoy, like-

Monica Packer: Yeah ...

Alise: fully and, and on my own. Um, most recently too, one of my kids pulled out... So my youngest one is three. Mm. And he was playing with a tube, and he accidentally pulled out his whole molar.

Monica Packer: Oh.

Alise: With, with roots and everything.

Monica Packer: Oh, gosh.

Alise: And, um, I had to deal with, with the, his-

Monica Packer: Oh, gosh, yeah ...

Alise: reaction and blood and everything. Ugh. And in the, in the moment, you know, as, as, as most moms probably, like, you hold it together for them, and you take care of whatever's needed. But a few hours later, I ate so much ice cream, and I...

Ice cream is not even, like, my go-to, like, let's say comfort food. Um, other members of my family love it, so we have [00:16:00] it, but, like, it's never a temptation, and I never overdo it. Oh. And I just wanted so much of that, almost, like, as a Band-Aid to, like, what I've- Hmm ... just experienced with my son.

Monica Packer: Gosh, I am so sorry about that experience.

I mean, that sounds like a horror show. Like, if I imagine being in your shoes in that moment. Is he okay?

Alise: Uh, yes. And he was good for then just a few hours later after naps. He was like, "I'm all better now." And I'm like- ... "Oh, kids, kids are so resilient. I would probably lay down for a week and cry myself-" Oh,

Monica Packer: yeah.

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: Same. So this is helping us highlight a few things. For you, it doesn't sound like- I mean, I'm sure there's food noise for sure, and like- Yeah ... chronic questioning and, like, thinking about right or wrong choices and all that, but it doesn't sound pervasive in terms of behavior. Like, it's not an all-day everyday kind of thing.

It's more, um, spurred by an event, one that either involves [00:17:00] rejection of some sorts-

Alise: Um, yes ...

Monica Packer: socially.

Alise: Like, I've also had those moments too- Yeah ... when it was when I would just make those goals like, "Oh, I need to lose all my baby- Uh-huh ...

Monica Packer: weight

Alise: and I really wanna get back to what I was before," and then I would obsess over it and the food noise- Yeah

was worse. But- Yes.

Monica Packer: That happens

Alise: a lot.

Monica Packer: Mm-hmm ...

Alise: but most recently I probably kind of gave up on that goal after Truza but I know and yes, so- Yeah ... it's more the other things that I shared.

Monica Packer: Yeah. It seems... Yeah. And, and that tends to happen actually, and that's a big part because, that kind of extreme obsession and dieting creates- Mm-hmm

more stress and- Mm-hmm ... and, and the food is, you know, part of the pattern of regulating and, and finishing that stress cycle. It, it kind of makes it more pervasive and harder. Um, so I think it's good. You know, obviously you've stepped away from that for now, but it doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bath [00:18:00] water and it's just like, "Well, we don't care about your health anymore."

No, we wanna care about your health, right? Yeah. But to do that we have to get at the roots of why this is helping. Mm-hmm. And, and so what you just described now, in most cases now it seems like related to an event of either rejection or stress, and both are stress actually. They're both stress. Like- Mm-hmm

over mama's stress, um, with your kids. , That rejection is a stress. And you describe some ways that the, the eating is helping you. It's a distraction, it's a comfort, it's a Band-Aid. It kind of helps ease the pain a bit. Is there any other thing you could say of, like, if I actually got objective about this behavior, if I removed the shame from it-

Alise: Mm-hmm

Monica Packer: and just said like, "Oh, I'm lazy," or like, "I can't, like, have self-control," like, if you were to remove that s- kind of self shame and blame about it, how do you think the behavior is trying to help you? Anything else?

Alise: I mean, it is always [00:19:00] easier and more within reach to eat, um, not well because- Yeah,

Monica Packer: it's just convenient

Alise: yes, so- Mm-hmm ... convenience and, uh, and it's also not being able to place myself first. I feel like for me- Okay ... to get there, I would have to To become a lot more rigid for everyone else's needs around me. Yeah. And to place my, my wants first.

Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.

Alise: And I don't see it as a need because I'm still healthy and I still exercise a few times a week and all that, but it's not at the level that I would do it on my own.

Monica Packer: Got it. Okay. Well, and, and, and I've seen this with other clients too, like sometimes that moment where it's a treat, and it doesn't mean it has to be a literal treat, but it feels like a break from everything. Mm-hmm. It al- actually is a way to make yourself a priority in a weird way, where it's like this treat- Yeah

equates me taking care of [00:20:00] myself to some degree, or like prioritizing myself in a way I normally can't.

Alise: Yes.

Monica Packer: Or it's an easy way to do it.

Alise: Yes. It, it does feel like, "Oh, this is just for me."

Monica Packer: Uh-huh. Like,

Alise: I can enjoy it and it's just mine.

Monica Packer: Mm-hmm. And you know, there are times where that's totally fine. Like, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Giving yourself a cookie in your room by yourself-

Alise: Mm-hmm ...

Monica Packer: that's a great way to give yourself a break, you know, or going out to get a, a lunch for yourself or another kind of treat or something you wouldn't normally get. Like, that's totally fine. But when it's like, when it doesn't feel chosen- That's the problem

Alise: That, and what I notice also with social media, I realize the danger with it is that it can never feel enough.

Yeah. And I don't, I don't like doing things that, like, the more you do... I mean, that's kind of like what addictions or what vices- Uh-huh ... do. Like, good behaviors, and when you eat healthy food, even when you enjoy it, and I enjoy plenty of, of healthy [00:21:00] foods. Yeah. I feel like I don't have this, like, want to, like, keep eating it until- Yes

like, there's no end. However, with sweets, like there's this mochi cake. Have you ever had mochi cake?

Monica Packer: No.

Alise: It's very spongy, and it has just the right texture, and it's light enough, but it's not really light, 'cause it has a ton of butter. I could eat to no end.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Alise: And that's scary to me, 'cause I'm like- Mm

this is not right. I wanna eat things that I know I can stop when there's no more need for it.

Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.

Alise: And, and sweets and junk and all that, they don't give you that.

Monica Packer: Yeah. And, and so again, this is going back to, like, the all or nothing pendulum swing.

We tend to think, like, "In order to fix this, I have to go to these extreme methods." But those extreme methods land you back in the another extreme, right, of just being like, "Well, mochi cake," "all day every day." You know, and what we're trying- Yeah ... to get you back to is a place where you feel like you are in [00:22:00] the driver's seat, where you're choosing, where it's not, like, trying to demonize food or to also use it to excess.

It's more about feeling like you're the driver of this relationship. Um, what you described to me too is, like, oftentimes when we find ourselves in that place where, like, there just isn't enough, and we just keep trying, whether it's social media or watching TV or emotional eating or playing games.

Sometimes it's even things that look productive, like organizing. Mm. Um, all these kinda numbing behaviors. Mm-hmm. The reason why that happens is because it's like, I don't know if you've heard me talk about the, an empty well. Like, we always hear the analogy, like, "You can't pour from an empty cup," right?

Yeah. Or like, "You can't , pull from an empty well." Like, there has to be something in that well. But for a lot of us, especially as moms, and including if you still have young children, which I know you do, and you're also, you know, balancing child-rearing with work and all that, you're not just pulling from an [00:23:00] empty well.

You're pulling from an empty, leaking well.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: There are cracks in this well. So there's a part of you, and there's a part of this behavior that is actually very wise. Because it knows this well isn't just empty, it's leaking.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: So it's not just let's give a little bit in there. It's like more, more, more, more is needed because that's the truth.

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: Things will leak out, and it- there will never be enough. So there's a lot of wisdom in this behavior. There's a lot of wisdom, too, in the fear. We have to then extract... Well, the wisdom here is I wanna feel like what I pour in this well is gonna help. The wisdom is understanding that you're not really a priority or taking care of yourself as much.

There's also wisdom in identifying not much can change unless you, like, hired a full-time nanny or something, like, extreme that is [00:24:00] not likely an option. I know it isn't for me either. Um, and, and that might not even be a desire you have. So-

Alise: No ...

Monica Packer: it's kind of like, well then how do I-

Alise: Mm-hmm ...

Monica Packer: without changing my life dramatically or going for extremes, how do I spackle these cracks in the well?

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: So the things I'm doing actually helps fill it up a bit more and more and more so I have things to draw from so that my body and my brain... 'Cause this is almost like a biological thing that's happening, right?

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: My body and my brain aren't desperately trying to numb out or to fill something that's just gonna get leached out.

 

This is a really huge moment for About Progress. Not only are we celebrating 10 years of the podcast this November, It's also right around the same time that my first book is getting published, Sticky Habits.

To celebrate both of these milestones, I [00:25:00] am hosting a free event on August 31st, one week prior to the publication of my book. It's called About Progress Live, and it's a live podcast recording. From podcast to page, we are gonna celebrate 10 years of progress. We're gonna do behind the scenes of the podcast, behind the scenes of the book, lessons I've learned, , funny stories along the way, And I don't wanna celebrate this alone.

So you can register for this event. It's free at no cost to you, but you do need to register as seats are limited. Go to aboutprogress.com/live, L-I-V-E, and that will take you to register for About Progress Live. Again, seats are very limited. It's in Utah in Salt Lake on August 31st , in the evening. We have a fantastic host who's gonna emcee the night, Julie Rose, who is a very accomplished talk show host, and I'm so pleased she's gonna be there, and I'd love to have you there for the live podcast recording.

Again, About Progress Live. Register at [00:26:00] aboutprogress.com/live

 

Monica Packer: So I just talked a lot. What of that is like, whoa, or like, oh, I didn't think of that, or that's feels really true and right to me?

Alise: Yes. It felt very, uh, like resonating with me. Um, and that's why when I thought for a second like, oh, do I wanna do more, become more disciplined in this area and do more? And part of me was like, no, because I already have a lot on my plate.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Alise: And I think I'm wired. I know a lot of women struggle with like- Self-care or just like understanding themselves, and I feel like I don't have that challenge, explicitly at least.

Monica Packer: Okay.

Alise: And, and I do want to do what's right for me, even if it's-

Monica Packer: Sure ...

Alise: not standard for whatever people are doing.

Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.

Alise: So I'd rather [00:27:00] go for the long and steady path-

Monica Packer: Yes

Alise: if it means I'm cared for- Yeah ... properly. And that's why I, yeah, I didn't mind, like, not eating as I should eat and exercising every single day. Even though on paper I would want that, I just feel like that would add so much more pressure- Yeah ... that it's not, it's not right for me right now.

Monica Packer: So right, there's wisdom in that.

There's wisdom in that.

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: So another word for willpower and discipline is energy.

Alise: Yes. Yes.

Monica Packer: So the wisdom in that- I like that ... as you were beginning, able to point out, is like- Mm-hmm ... this is a discipline problem. It's an energy problem.

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: And mine's depleted, and it's leaking. Like, there's nothing really to, to give from.

It's... So it's nice to hear, I believe this is what you just said, that you don't have the resistance to caring for yourself like a lot of women carry. Like, you know you deserve that and you are ready for it. So then we gotta get to the, what the question mark is, is then what is in the way? [00:28:00] Because it sounds like- Mm-hmm

you don't have the mental and emotional resistance. It may just be the practical obstacles is, is what is getting in your way. Is that

Alise: it? So you definitely nailed it with just mentioning energy, because- Energy, yeah ... if you, if you are to compare where I'm at today to, um, some of my highlights in- Mm-hmm

throughout my life when I was at my best, I think the on- the main and maybe even only big difference was energy. Yeah. Like, my, my energy levels, which of course that doesn't mean only the fact that I can get up and go on a run and do that stuff, but I just had more drive all around.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Alise: Mm-hmm. And I don't feel that.

I wonder if it also transferred in I have a harder time feeling, like, joy, um, feeling excited about things. Yes, of course. Like- Yeah ... and I, and I don't know if part of that is like, is that maturing? Is that growing up or getting older?

I'm like, uh, I hope [00:29:00] not. Like, I hope there's a way to improve this. But again, right now I either don't have the resources and I haven't really focused enough on changing that one thing. Energy. Mm-hmm. Well, and it makes sense, because energy isn't just about sleep, although I wanna ask questions about that.

Monica Packer: And this is the thing we learned from Dr. Saundra Dalt- Dalton-Smith. She's been on the podcast. She talks about there are seven kinds of rest. So it's like emotional energy. It's spiritual energy. It's creative energy. Mm. It's social energy. Mm. And if all these things are getting extracted, extracted, extracted- And not filled up.

Again, that's why things dry up and then the cracks appear. So I'm gonna just be real transparent. We've been transparent about a bunch of things, right? But the biggest thing- Mm-hmm ... right now is this is a long road. Mm-hmm. This isn't something we're gonna be able to fix today, and I know you know that. But what we're starting with is clarity- Yes

so that you then have a path on what you're moving towards. And the ultimate goal here is to spackle the cracks, [00:30:00] and then to be able to start filling the well. And you can call that the energy well if you want, or energy bank, but really it's you. Mm-hmm. Like, it's you. It's your spirit. It's your spark. It's, it's you feeling like you're part of your own life, like you're actually living your life, you're present to it.

, It's yours. , And, and, and so that's a long road, right, to get there. Yeah. Um, as is healing these behaviors. And so what we want is to really have a continual curiosity about these behaviors and a, a, a compassion towards them, , to let them teach you, "Oh, this is why in that moment I found myself lost in my pantry.

It wasn't about the chocolate chips or whatever I'm eating. It's that I'm really overwhelmed right now."

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: Or, "I had a friend group that all went to dinner without me." Like, or, like, it's being able to get curious. Like, that's something we build towards is getting more and more information. We have some now, which is good, but in general we're having that long game of [00:31:00] I'm gonna start identifying more and more patterns, and then with time I'm gonna be able to start interrupting those patterns.

Mm-hmm. But to do that, I need energy-

Alise: Yeah ...

Monica Packer: to even build awareness of the patterns, and then with time to interrupt them. I need energy. So that's actually what I wanna help you get really started on. Even before we fix the behaviors-

Alise: Mm-hmm ...

Monica Packer: we've gotta spackle the cracks, okay?

And I think we already know the cracks are, like, we know why this is all happening. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to know. Like, you were- Yeah ... very busy, stretched thin, lots of kids, work. Like, we could just go on and on, right? There's a long list of why the well is empty and there's cracks in it. But if we're gonna go with the first way, we're gonna spackle and begin to fill the well again, it seems like it's the energy question.

So let's talk about that. What... Not what is drawing from your energy. Again, like, we know. But what helps you feel energized? [00:32:00] And this may be, like, really practical stuff on the outside. Mm-hmm. Like the obvious will sleep. Or it may be other things, like a hobby or, you know- Yeah ... um, socializing.

What gives you energy? So, yes. So before being married, a- and definitely before , having kids, um, it definitely was, like, girls' time, you know? Yeah. Okay. Like, interacting with friends, um, or even going dancing and-

Oh,

Alise: I love that ... going shopping. All of those things.

Monica Packer: Uh-huh. So socially, that's a big one for you.

Alise: Yes.

Monica Packer: And- Which makes sense why one of your... Sorry I'm interrupting you. Yeah. But it make... Before I forget. I will forget. That makes sense why one of your biggest triggers are social triggers.

Alise: Yes. Yes. And, and once I became a stay-at-home mom, um, a lot of that network diminished or disappeared. Mm-hmm. Because I did make- Okay

I did make friendships through work. Yeah. I also, uh, I also got a lot of, uh, value or, um- Mm-hmm ... [00:33:00] kind of just for myself, you know? Um, validation from- Yeah ... having that job and all that, so.

Monica Packer: Okay.

Alise: Right off the bat, those things were gone. But I would say that now, um, being social still energizes me for sure, but- Okay

I don't have as much of a need as I used to. Hmm. And now, like, being alone once in a while is- Yeah ... very much needed. And even that, especially in the summer, has been very hard to get and block off.

Monica Packer: Okay. So, and this is how we all are as humans. There's contradictions inside of us. Like, you do, you need a little more social time, but not like a ton.

You don't need it maybe as much as you used to. Yeah. But you still need some. Mm-hmm. And you also need alone time.

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: You need time away from people. Okay, totally makes sense to me why you would need both. Well, you talk about self-validation. You have several things to call your own.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: But are those also just depleting the stress Do they help more than they hurt, or do they hurt- Um

more [00:34:00] than they help?

Alise: No, they, they help in the capacity right now, but I also realized through launching my own company and, uh, doing the- Mm-hmm ... e-commerce and also working from home right now, that I actually enjoy interacting with people in person.

Monica Packer: Okay.

Alise: So, uh, that- So

Monica Packer: that part of it is depleting. Yes. And it- The non-person part.

Okay ...

Alise: yes. And it's still missing, and it's good- Okay ... it's good for right now, and again, my kids are the priority, but I know looking forward that I need to be part of a team or just to interact with other adults.

Monica Packer: Okay, so this is really illuminating. We know that there's parts of that job that fill you, but now we can see what parts deplete you, which can be filled with in-person time with other people.

Okay. What else gives you energy? Is there anything else?

Alise: I mean, going on trips just with my husband is great

Monica Packer: Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome, right? So

Alise: we

Monica Packer: try- Okay,

Alise: so a little

Monica Packer: adventure. [00:35:00] 

Alise: Yeah, we try to do that, um, every so often. Great. And, um I don't know. That's the problem. I feel like there's not as many things as there should be, almost.

Monica Packer: Well, that, that's fine.

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: It doesn't have to be an exhaustive list.

Alise: No, but it's just surprising to me. Hmm. Because that's not how I used to be. Yeah. And I'm like, am I, am I changing, or am I going through a funk that is, like, years long? Sure. Because I'm raising kids and things have changed. And I think part of me keeps waiting for me to bounce back to who I was and how I was, and I'm realizing that both, like, the physical part, like my weight and body, are not ever gonna function again like they did at 25.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Alise: But maybe even emotionally I will never be-

Monica Packer: Hmm ...

Alise: that person again. Mm-hmm. Even though I keep waiting.

Monica Packer: Mm.

Alise: Um, but so much of life, I feel like, uh, [00:36:00] fulfillment has to do with expectations, and it's very important to me to keep the right expectations for the right things.

Monica Packer: Well, and I think that's wise. Um, what I will say on that is I think the question of basically am I...

Have I changed, and will I ever... Like, is it okay for me to just accept I've changed- Mm-hmm ... and to accept this new version of me, or should I be trying to work back towards who I used to be? Right. So the answer here is it could be either way and still be good and right. Yeah. Like-

Alise: Yes ...

Monica Packer: you could decide-

Alise: Yes ...

Monica Packer: I, I'm gonna accept who I am now and learn to embrace that and be who I am now. Mm-hmm. And you can also say, "No, I want some of these things back." Yeah. And again, that's part of the longer game here.

Mm-hmm. That's part of this curiosity. In many ways, these numbing behaviors are numbing out the s- the side of these answers too, of, of knowing, actually, I don't need to be 25 me anymore.

Alise: Yeah, yeah.

Monica Packer: I can be however you old are version of me right now, but [00:37:00] maybe there's parts of the 25-year-old me-

Alise: Mm-hmm ...

Monica Packer: that I realize I'm missing and I wanna bring back.

For me, like, it's my optimism.

Alise: Yes.

Monica Packer: I think age has made me more cynical, and in some ways, like, in ways I don't really like.

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: And I would like to find ways to believe in the best in people again-

Alise: Yeah ...

Monica Packer: and have more hope again-

Alise: Yes ...

Monica Packer: about the world and other people. I agree. And so I can know I don't have to be the exact same person I was then- Mm-hmm

but I can know this part of me is something I wanna bring back. And it sounds like for you, it, it, maybe the spark is what you're missing.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: Yeah. Just that little bit of spark. And those answers, I think, will come more-

Alise: Mm-hmm ...

Monica Packer: as we're getting curious about these behaviors, as we're trying to work on these, spackling these cracks.

[00:38:00] 

Alise: But here's, again, what surprises me, is that- I don't even know if I care enough-

Monica Packer: Yeah ...

Alise: to, to dig enough and to do all that work. That's why I'm like, um, this is

Monica Packer: strange. Well, 'cause it takes energy.

Alise: Yes. Yeah.

Monica Packer: So that's why

Alise: I feel like- So we go back to the energy. Yeah ...

Monica Packer: with time, I think you'll- Yeah ... have more capacity-

Alise: Mm-hmm

Monica Packer: to begin asking those questions and forming your own answers. But it doesn't have to happen right now. Like, I actually think we can work on the practical side-

Alise: Mm-hmm ...

Monica Packer: of trying to spackle these cracks and begin to fill this energy well or bank, right? And with time, and even more curiosity and beginning to interrupt the patterns, like, I think we'll be able to see, where is this increased energy taking you?

What are you able to see? Okay, now I have the capacity to care a little more about these questions that keep coming up, but I just don't- Yeah ... have the [00:39:00] bandwidth to- Yeah ... really dig into.

Alise: No, you're right. Yeah.

Monica Packer: It's part of the long game.

Alise: Uh-huh.

Monica Packer: So how's your sleep? I'm gonna ask a really practical question.

How's your sleep?

Alise: There's no problem there- Mm ... except that I probably want too much of it.

Monica Packer: Hmm.

Alise: And again, I know if I woke up earlier by an hour or an hour and a half, I would probably get a lot more in my day, and I might even have more energy, but I just, I'm at the point that I don't... Like, the payoff is not worth it.

Yeah. So I just, like, indulge. And I mean- Hmm ... when I say that, um, like, sleeping in is 7:00-

Monica Packer: Yeah ...

Alise: for me, or 8:00 on the weekends sometimes. So, um-

Monica Packer: That

Alise: doesn't

Monica Packer: sound like indulgence

Alise: to me ... but, but it, it does feel a little bit, because I know I could get a lot more done, but I still feel like, well, I will still do it, even if it's not necessarily in the- Sure

[00:40:00] in a shorter timeframe. Um, but, but h- then I, I also look at the state of my house and everything, and I'm like, this is not the best of me showing up. I could show up better. Hmm. And in theory, I like to do that. But then when it comes to the minute by minute, I'm like, it's okay. I already do so much. Like-

Monica Packer: Yeah

Alise: I don't... Kind of

Monica Packer: feel the

Alise: duality- Yeah ... right? Kind of war in you? Yeah, yeah.

Monica Packer: Okay.

Alise: It definitely is a strange place. I mean,

Monica Packer: I would ha- I would, I... This is another, like, question mark- Mm-hmm ... I think we can get, get curious about with time.

Alise: Right.

Monica Packer: But from what I'm hearing right now, it sounds like you n- you need sleep, and that's okay.

Like- Mm-hmm ... all of us could wake up an hour or two earlier. Like, I was waking up at 5:00 for the most part of this last year and a half, and guess what?

Alise: Hmm.

Monica Packer: There was not a single day where it wouldn't have helped if I'd gotten up even a half hour earlier.

Alise: Right.

Monica Packer: There's always more to do.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: [00:41:00] Always. And I've had to accept that too.

I had to do that because of the book stuff. Yeah. And I told my husband recently, I'm like, "I'm not doing that anymore." Like, I... It, it never... It helps, but it doesn't... There's no limit to how- Yeah ... early I could wake up in ways that would actually help everything run better.

Alise: So what is your standard or, like, your sweet spot of waking up and going to bed?

I'm

Monica Packer: not sure yet. Okay. For the summer, I'm waking up at 6:00, but-

Alise: Okay ...

Monica Packer: that's because I'm going to bed still early too, 'cause I'm also like you, realizing I need a lot more sleep.

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: And that's okay. Like, I don't know if it's aging, I don't know if it's just- Mm-hmm ... life circumstances or, like, built-up fatigue over the years, but I'm like- Mm-hmm

I need a lot of sleep. I need a lot of sleep. So I'll see how the school year goes, but I just wanna kinda give you that to know- Yeah ... it's okay to need sleep, you know? Um, and so maybe that's okay for you, that's working for you. Or maybe what you'll be able to identify with time, [00:42:00] actually, I just need to go to bed earlier, or maybe you're going to bed fine, and that's fine.

So but we are for sure clear on- . ways to prioritize in-person sociality, I don't know how else to say that. It's gonna be important, but also alone time. And the how here- Mm-hmm ... so again, today we're about getting clarity. That's really what we're doing mostly.

The action steps are still gonna come more and more with time, but I want to at least give you one simple way to get started. Of those two, which one do you wanna start prioritizing ? Alone time or in-person social time?

Alise: Well, when I say alone time, it really is to read, to journal, to be with myself-

Monica Packer: Uh-huh

Alise: and to kind of self-regulate.

Monica Packer: Yes.

Alise: I think- Yes ... I think I've always used that alone time-

Monica Packer: That sounds great ...

Alise: for that reason.

Monica Packer: Uh-huh.

Alise: Um, and also, uh, [00:43:00] it could be at the gym. I- Okay ... I haven't, I haven't been consistent during the summer, and I feel it. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like, I definitely enjoy it more when I, when I can go, and, and that's when the waking up earlier would help.

Monica Packer: Sure, okay. Like... Maybe that's kind of some- one we can work up to.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: But the one you can start with is the, the journaling time.

Alise: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: Um, when is a good time of day for you to do that, beyond waking up earlier? Let's just eliminate that from the equation for now.

Alise: Um, probably evening time. Evening? I would like that, yes.

Monica Packer: Okay. What I want to be able to do is help you get a when-then pairing. So when I clo- you know, start the dishwasher for the night, maybe that signals the end of your responsibilities for the day. Then I'll go into my room and journal, or when I'm done washing my face, or when I'm done brushing my teeth- Mm-hmm

or when I'm done saying my prayers, or when I'm done saying good night to the kids. Like, is there a clear [00:44:00] thing you do most nights that we can attach this to?

Alise: Um, it would be putting the kids to bed. The, I shouldn't say the problem, but that's the time we have to get as a couple. Mm. And unless, unless I coordinate with my husband, if he has something going on or can go do, I will also feel like, oh, I'm not showing up for him.

Yeah. Like, it's still, it's still not my time.

Monica Packer: Yeah, d- yeah, it doesn't sound like it. Uh, what if this is an and thing? Mm. What if I can have alone time and we can have time together- Yeah ... after?

Alise: Mm-hmm

Monica Packer: Could we make a little space for and? I think right now you're probably like, "I need like two hours alone every night."

Yeah. Like, I know I feel that way. I, I definitely- And- ... recharge by being alone ...

Alise: and not every, every night.

Monica Packer: No.

Alise: Um, not at all, but yeah, I mean-

Monica Packer: What if this... We had- I'm trying to help you come up with a baseline version. Mm-hmm. This is the smallest and simplest one- Yeah ... that just can release, you know, the pressure valve, also [00:45:00] give you a little...

We're g- doing a little bit of spackling every time. Yeah. So it's not gonna like change things overnight, but it's gonna help, and also pave the way for other forms of alone time or longer bouts of alone time that you can coordinate with your husband. Yeah. Where you say, "Hey, listen, I'm gonna start with Sunday nights, I need an hour to myself."

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: Or it's okay if you say, "Three nights a week I need an hour to myself."

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: You, you can still have some couple time, right, on the other nights or after that. But-

Alise: Well- ...

Monica Packer: a baseline version will help too. Go

Alise: ahead. And, and it's hard because, um, in his views like, well, you have all day to yourself, and I don't.

Monica Packer: No,

Alise: you don't. I work. But I don't. And also even if I did during, um, like an afternoon, I just feel like I'm not as in tune with my mind or- Yeah ... myself. It's kind of this- You

Monica Packer: probably have a lot of urgency alarm bells going off in your mind of what needs to be done where and with whom and who needs to be

Alise: picked up from where and- Or I'm just more, I'm just more dull even if we have downtime.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Alise: I [00:46:00] just wanna have downtime. Like a, it's not gonna be an introspective, like productive-

Monica Packer: Okay ...

Alise: anything.

Monica Packer: Yeah. Okay. And that's probably- But evening, it's easier to be a little more introspective.

Alise: I think so, yeah.

Monica Packer: Okay. Let's start with the baseline- Okay ... of like when I put my kids to bed, then I'll take, you can say 10 minutes to journal or s- or be alone.

Yeah. You can decide what you do in that alone time, whether you're journaling or you're just sitting and thinking. And you can set a timer, a literal timer.

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: And, and, and, and that allows you, one, the consistency you need right now for those cracks. This is a need. It's not a want.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: This is a need.

Okay? And with time, again, with more communication with your husband and kind of sorting out the... There can be other ways to build in this alone time too. This is a very simple starting place- Mm-hmm ... but it also is kind of like a trai- like a, you know, those training wheels that we have on all our kids' bikes?

Like, it's almost like training wheels too- Yeah ... to help you learn how [00:47:00] to put yourself on the list in a consistent way so that you can identify what else you need and be more in practice of doing that.

Alise: I do like and appreciate how we started with food.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Alise: And we ended with, um- Journaling ... time alone.

Yes.

Monica Packer: Yes. Alone time. Well, and here's the thing-

That's not gonna be the only answer. And again, we've talked about this again. So I know you have this perspective, but here's what I wanna say. This is the starting place, but you're building a foundation here. Mm-hmm. Like, healing this relationship is like building a house, and building a house comes in many phases- Mm-hmm

and it takes time. And what you want, though, is a strong, sturdy house. So that means you need a foundation. So we're beginning to build one part of that foundation, and with time, you'll be able to identify other ways to have alone time to add to that foundation, social time. And they're gonna heal the cracks in your energy well, and then you'll be able to see, oh, [00:48:00] I, I actually need this, and this is gonna help me.

You're gonna have more energy to be curious about the patterns than to begin- Mm-hmm ... to disrupt them, to replace the needs with other things. Like, it's, it's a long game, right? But we're, we're starting with, right now, we're just starting to dig a hole that the foundation's gonna go in, okay? Um, and one other thing, too, is with all coping mechanisms, all coping behaviors- Mm-hmm

like we said, they all have these roots of trying to help. When they are to a place of, of uncontrollability and chronic behavior, and if you ever worry, like, is this actually more of an addiction or something that's more of a disorder-

Alise: Mm-hmm ...

Monica Packer: that's, that's the time to seek out, like, a real therapist who is, who knows this stuff, right?

But right now, I think you're in a good place to at least start with th- these roots of I'm gonna take care of myself in this small way. Mm-hmm. And I'm [00:49:00] going to just begin with more curiosity about these behaviors in the moment, and I'm gonna start trying to identify in the moment what are the patterns, how is this trying to help?

So that with time we can interrupt those patterns more. The line between a bad habit and an addiction is a pretty, or a disorder, is pretty fuzzy.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: But if you're curious or worried about it, it always helps to find out. It, it just, it's always worth just finding out. Um, but at the roots, it's okay to start in this place of, of curiosity- Yeah ... and, and trying to get more support in figuring this out, okay? The way we are.

Alise: I appreciate it, yes.

Monica Packer: Okay.

We've got a starting place for you. What is something you wanna remember from this conversation?

Alise: that my emotional eating is a coping mechanism

Monica Packer: Mm-hmm

Alise: instead of just treating the actual foods I eat and controlling all that behavior, is, uh, trying to solve the source of why [00:50:00] I even need to cope, um, at this stage of life and activity and demands.

Monica Packer: Good. But

Alise: yeah, that was-

Monica Packer: And you know what I love the most about that is it's not, and there's no element of self-blame there.

Shame drives bad behaviors, okay? Mm-hmm. These bad habits are actually helpers in disguise.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: They're trying to help. They're just doing it in a way that's hurting. So if we get to the roots of why they're helping, then we can start to help you in different ways-

Alise: Mm-hmm ...

Monica Packer: that will give you the capacity to begin working on the patterns, these behaviors with time, okay?

Alise: And, and that's what I loved about, uh, that episode- Yeah ... and your approach that Sabrina has.

Monica Packer: Mm-hmm.

Alise: Is that, um, almost every trainer you would talk to or any person in the industry, um, I feel like they would just tell you to be more disciplined and to do more- Exactly ... and [00:51:00] to, to be more strict and to follow a very regimented pa- like plan.

And, uh, and it kind of never felt like right or the- Mm-hmm ... the best way. I'm sure it works and it will have results, but to what

Monica Packer: cost? Well, and it can work for certain people for sure, you know, but they don't have the same life you do- Yeah ... and the same patterns- Yeah ... and the layers there. Um- Mm-hmm ... and, and that's all there is to it, you know?

Yeah,

Alise: yeah.

Monica Packer: And that's okay.

Alise: Mm-hmm.

Monica Packer: And, and, and to be quite frank, it's a very small minority that I've seen that that works with. I think that can help to a certain extent if you have more capacity.

Alise: Yeah.

Monica Packer: And that capacity has to be built up in other ways, you know? Mm-hmm. And the healing takes time. So you're building a house to heal this relationship.

Let's start with this one small way of beginning to build this foundation you need to a really strong house of healing this relationship, and that's with prioritizing the small amount of time each day for yourself. All you do [00:52:00] is lay in your bed for 15 minutes and just give yourself a s- time to think, that's good.

Or if you write a little bit in a journal, that's good for now. Mm-hmm. More will come with time.

Alise: Appreciate it.

Monica Packer: Yeah, you did great. Thanks, Elise.

Alise: You're great.

 

I hope this episode gave you the hug and kick in the pants you need to grow. I'll now share the progress pointers. These are the notes I take so you don't have to, and those in my newsletter get them in an expanded graphic version each week. You can sign up at aboutprogress.com/newsletter. Number one, get curious about your coping habits instead of judging them.

Number two, before assuming you need more discipline, check your energy. Number three, look for the cracks in your well. Number four, identify what actually restores you. And number five, [00:53:00] start with the smallest version of what you need. Again, that's a shortened version. The expanded graphic version is available for you in the newsletter.

Sign up at aboutprogress.com/newsletter. We send the newsletters out on each Wednesday, so you have a couple days to, you know, listen once the episodes go live. I referenced a couple episodes in my chat with Elise, and I am going to link to them. One is, like, my interview with Sabrina, and then I have the interview with Dr.

Sandra Donaldson Smith that I've also linked in the show notes for you. She is gonna be a speaker in the More for Moms conference this year. Cannot wait. And then I also have a big episode on the N's of numbing out that I will put in there, and a couple on regulation as well. So this is a meaty, meaty topic.

Numbing behaviors is heavily featured in my book, by the way. The last part of the book, uh, several chapters' worth, three chapters' worth, is devoted to bad habits that are really numbing behaviors. , So if you want to even go further in what I'm teaching here, make sure you pre-order Sticky Habits, which is getting published very soon, [00:54:00] September 8th.

This podcast is listener supported. Members of the Supporters Club make my work here at About Progress free and available to all without us putting anything behind a paywall or having to add in a bunch more ads. So thank you for that. If you are interested in supporting my work and, as part of it, getting access to three levels of exclusive benefits from more time to more content with me, including my ad-free premium podcast, More Personal, be sure to check out the benefits by going to aboutprogress.com/support.

But you can always support the show for free. The best way to do that right now is to share this show with that person you thought of as you were listening. Make sure you copy the URL of this episode and send it their way. A bonus one, also for free, is to leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

We have had very, very few left this year, and doing so automatically submits you to the anniversary giveaway we'll be doing this fall. And that's the only way you can enter the giveaway is by leaving a rating and review on Apple [00:55:00] Podcasts. So thank you for doing so.

We are coming up on our 10-year anniversary really soon. So just a little plug on that. I would love to get more voice memos. We've had a few sent in, which I'm so relieved about, honestly. But when we come up to that 10-year anniversary mid-November, I wanna do a Dear Progresser episode.

We have not done one in a long time, and that's because they're typically hard to get people to send in voice notes. We had a much smaller audience when we did this as a monthly episode, and we always had submissions, and it's been harder and harder even though our audience has grown a lot. So what has the show meant to you?

What's a favorite guest or lesson that you learned? A memory, something that changed, something that changed things for you, or just in general, what you have appreciated about your time listening to About Progress. Record a voice memo on your phone. Every phone has an app that helps you do that.

And email me the file at [email protected]. I'm so appreciative that you took the time to listen. Now, go and [00:56:00] do something with what you learned today.

 

Monica Packer: Just one moment. I have a little guy here. My, my husband's took my other kids s- somewhere.

Yes?

He's going to John's. Okay. 'Cause Aunt Julie says, has four texts back. He is in Minnesota. Okay. So he can't... So are you gonna go there? Yeah. Okay. Can you be home by 4:00 PM? Yeah. Okay. No, how much video games? Yeah. Okay. And that's it for the whole week. We've learned they go to friends' houses because they get to play video games, and that's why we haven't been seeing them very often.

So now we're like, "Nope," 'cause you come- ... c- come play here. Come play here. You know? So he, he gets to hit his time today. Sorry about that.